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Springer Accuracy - is it the gun or me?

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S

Samiam

Member
May 30, 2017
7
0
arizona
Try as I may, for the past year I have not been able to get decent groups at even a mere 15 yds. (always greater than 2" at best ) with my Benjamin .22 NP Regal springer. So after much investigation I decided to experiment a bit and remove the shooter factor "ME" from the equation.

TEST: The goal was to find out what the gun can do on its own (99% at least) without my physical interference/presence during the shot. I set up a bench test whereby the gun was supported, fore and aft, and the scope crosshairs (a Hammers 3-9X32AO) set on dead center at 15 yards. My intent was to touch the gun as little as possible while taking a shot. Suspending and supporting the gun allow it to move (recoil) in its proper way, unrestricted, hence not influencing the pellets trajectory. I actually suspended the stock butt from a leather strap, allowing the gun to move fore & aft without restriction, forestock supported on sandbags covered with a sheet of super slippery Rayon - again so the gun will move freely during the shot cycle. For this test I used .22 Crosman Premier Hollow Points. For each shot, I touched to gun with only my forefinger on the trigger and my thumb resting ever-so-lightly on the top of the stock - the lightest touch possible to still activate the trigger and not apply any pressure to the gun's surfaces - not as easy as it sounds.

DISCOVERY: After more than a few test shots to refine my aiming and trigger technique, I was able to consistently reproduce 4-shot 1/2" groups at 15 yds. I was very pleased to know my gun was doing its part, that I had made a good purchase - but at the same I was disappointed to learn undeniably......I'm a lousy shot!!! My poor form and lack of consistently are my undoing for sure. So, practice, practice, practice.

Progress Note: As my practice continues I am finding a gentle "cradle" of the gun is the greater part of an answer to much more pleasing groups - no need for a tight grip (its an airgun at 15yds. not a 30-06 deer rifle at 150yds). You can still hold the gun and aim as usual, but do so as lightly as possible to let the gun go through its shot/recoil cycle once the shot is taken. Form is everything and follow-through is mandatory.
 
you sound like you've got all the basics, so do practice. I'm coming back to shooting after decades of "life," and I've become a poor shooter, too. I build a tall and wide backer board 2" thick so that I can shoot my .177 at targets without fear of penetration. I have four sets of targets from 3" down to 3/8" circles. Let's just say, that I'm really not making the grade for the 3/8" circles but I'm doing well at 3/4", all at 13 yards. Slow but steady.



Arch_E
 
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Decades ago my brother bench rested his .177 R9 completely on sand bags and was certain that the cross hairs were perfectly centered on the bull at 30 yards and proceeded to shoot PATTERNS even though he only touched the gun with his trigger finger. Then he put the palm of his left hand between the stock forearm and the sandbag, plus made sure that the R9 butt pad was rested only on his shoulder without allowing the stock to touch the bench........the result was nice 30 yard groups under 1/2" ctc. Matter of fact, after some practice he was able to shoot these two 50 yard groups at one sitting..........



I do almost all my shooting using either my .177 Beeman R9 or .177 HW95 while sitting on a bucket resting my gun on cross sticks and have shot these "bucket and sticks" groups........







Here are a few 5 shot groups at different distances out to 50 yards and I'm firmly convinced that some of the closer groups being larger than some of the farther groups is to be blamed on the shooter, not the equipment..........





I have had springers like a .177 Crosman Quest 1000 and Gamo440 that were no more accurate than 1" ctc at 30 yards no matter what I did and those two springers were literally "land filled" out of frustration.

Point of all this is that I personally haven't been able to group well shooting my HW springers from a bench, unlike my brother, howevewr I'm pretty sure the issue is ME rather than the springers. Here are a couple "unusually good for me" 50 yard 5 shot groups sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks using either my .177 HW95 or .177 Beeman R9..........









Anywhoo....my answer is that the issue could be either the equipment (like when I shot a Crosman Quest or Gamo440), the resting method (like wedging the springer between sand bags), the pellet choice (a big issue for my springers), or the shooter (my normal accuracy issues). For "bench resting" my springers DIDN'T shoot more accurately than when I sat on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks, but that's me!

I did make up some 100 bull targets using my CAD software so I could practice my shooting form while using "bucket sticks". The idea was to shoot one pellet per bull hoping to at least hit the "circle of the bull". It's sized to fit the standard 8 1/2" x 11" letter format..........

<a href="https://imgur.com/4yOFU4o"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

<a href="https://imgur.com/WlHZuJN"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

<a href="https://imgur.com/is7YTzE"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>
 
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Airguns are a different creature, for shure. Good work on isolation of the variables, that shows an analytical mind with persistence. You will do well, keep up the quest!I I fought with an nitro piston for about 12 months until the recoil destroyed the stock hardware. The PCP game is a whole different animal, also. The cost of entry into PCP guns has dropped "biggly". 

I hope you stay with airguns, and only the best to you 
 
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My shots with my gas ram guns got immediately better when I stopped "squeezing" the trigger.

It seems that I handle the recoil better when I know exactly when it is going to happen. 

I wouldn't advise "jerking" the trigger.....but try 10 shots where you deliberately touch the rounds off. You might find that your hold is more consistent that way verses the big surprise.
 
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.. i have the same problem with .177 bsa springers. really great looking .177 bsa lightning xl (english made) that just would not act right for me at all.... pissed me off because i traded a transitional .177 webley longbow for it. i even tried it again with a black synth stock spainish-made .177 bsa , and that was the end of .177 bsa for me... everyone i sold them to loves them, and they are great accurate air rifles. it was my hold, i guess. for some reason the .22 bsa springers work great for me - i have a .22 supersport magnum from the 1980's that's really sweet. i have to do that trigger jerking stuff with my rws 94 tho. i call 'gunning the trigger'. i never knew they made .22 benjamin regals. i seem to remember cameron at crosman telling me that regals and rushmores were made for specific retail stores. that benjamin rushmore is a great ram / piston gun - and i have only seen that one in .22 . i bought about 6 of them when they went on clearance at academy sports for around 99 bux. the rushies shoot harder than the prowlers and and other original nitro pistons. 765 fps with premiers - and you'll know it when you have to replace a ram in one. about $35 for that rushmore strut - and they only made that .22 benjamin rushmore for one year - 2015. but anytime i have accuracy problems from these cheaper benji / crosman guns after i've tried everything else (especially the trigger tune trick with the remote car bearings and lube tuning) - i usually find that it's the poopty chinese barrels. they havent got that part down yet completely and about 1/4 of them just plain suck. it is cheap to buy a new barrel assembly ($17 for a .25 trail xl barrel) but their american-made barrel assemblies are much better and much more (np2 barrel assy for $40). sometimes you get a great shooting $100 chinese-made springer and if you do, just keep it because you'll never get what it's worth. i had a really good mike melik tuned b-26 or the r9 clone - and i traded it for a benji hand pump. someone mentioned gamo 440 up there, but all of the late 1990's gamos shoot great for me - i have an old shadow 1000, which is a 220 with solid plastic stock. it shoots great (i did detune it a bit - 860 fps with 8 gr). i bought a 220 at the airgun show here last year - after a little tuning , it shot just like this shadow 1000. the 440's are very easy to cock , shoot 900 fps and just as accurate as the diana 34 t06 i compared it with. i think it'd be great to actually find a .22 gamo 440 or 890 - but ive never seen one. the newer plastic gamos arent nearly as well made as when they had limited lifetime warranty stickers on the tube and were all wood and steel except for the trigger guard.. i have no idea how they get away with using sooo much plastic now - and have 3 yr warranties to boot. i stopped a guy from buying gamo pellets for his new .177 gamo at cabela's yesterday . i pulled a tin of 10.5 gr premiers off the pegboard and mentioned that gamo pellets are no good. i gave him the rundown on the breakin period and tried to explain the hold sensitivity of those lightweight plastic gamos (think he had a .177 maxim or something). explained about the scope creep and when to to check all the scope mount screws for re-tightening. gave him my card and asked him to contact after about two weeks of shooting it (squirrel problem, so i mentioned .22 airgun would be better, and the .177 for feather , .22 for fur ideology). but he seemed like the type of guy that if that plastic gamo gun with poop gamo pellets didnt work well, he would have given up on break barrels all together and put it in the garage to rot. would have been a wasted $250. we would have lost a fellow airgunner. (anyone that pays more than $200 for a pellet gun , i consider a good potential airgunner) ........i love spring/piston break barrels the best of all airguns.....they say if you master accuracy shooting a spring / piston airgun , that you should be able to shoot any other gun effectively. - paul. -ps: some i use my use my old walnut .22 discovery and it feels like cheating.
 
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"bad (substituted for other word) Chinese barrels" and "all of the late 1990's gamos shoot great for me".

I bought two Chinese Bs from a Cummins Truckload Sale when living in West Virginia and indeed the metal work was awful and the bore as rough as a corn cob. I cobbled together the two B3s into one gun using the best parts (the ones without finger ripping burrs) and had a pretty good shooter after some mods (like an oring sealed piston cap). Matter of fact, that B3 with the "corn cob bore" was more accurate than the Gamo440 which was nicely finished. Here are a couple groups shot with the "corn cob bore" using JSB Exacts (Crosman Premiers shot patterns). First, 25 yards using factory sights...........



Next, using a 6x Burris Compact scope (only scope I had that would fit the short receiver) after stripping off the factory sights.........



By the way, the JSB Exact velocity was 100fps faster with an oring sealed piston cap relative to the factory leather seal..........





IMHO, poor barrel isn't the only cause of poor accuracy since the scoped groups shot at 25 yards with the B3 were about 1/2 the size of the groups shot with the Gamo440 which had a nicely finished bore. In contrast the best 30 yard group I shot with my Gamo440 was 1" ctc at 25 yards (can rolling accuracy). That gun along with a Crosman Quest 1000 with similar accuracy issues were "land filled" (buried on the property) rather than put up with the frustrations.

P.S. I installed a "trigger insert" in the Gamo440 which made that horrendous trigger at least useable.
 
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As for your original post question, I frankly think it’s both. 

Sure, your technique will ensure consistency and more accurate shooting, but a quality gun will meet you more than half way. 

Try your test at 30 yards and see what you see. Lots of guns will group respectfully at 15 yards. If possible hook up with a friend that has a different gun, maybe something like a 12fpe HW97, 95, or TX, etc and repeat the test. Then see what you see. 

In my journey, it was the gun, and perhaps the low power tunes that got me shooting better. Generally I shake like a leaf if not rested on bags well. 

If I hold on tight or loose, I get good groupings, the only thing that changes is the POI. 

Great job doing your testing, that’s what it’s all about. Discovery, learning, and having fun. 


 
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"Generally I shake like a leaf if not rested on bags well."

I can't take a "shootin' bench" into the woods when squirrel huntin' so "bucket and sticks" is the only practical support due to poor unsupported accuracy. LOL....usually for me it's a matter of "timing the fly-by through the scope", however on those days of little swaying on the bucket the point of impact does match the point of aim more often.😋
 
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"Generally I shake like a leaf if not rested on bags well."

I can't take a "shootin' bench" into the woods when squirrel huntin' so "bucket and sticks" is the only practical support due to poor unsupported accuracy. LOL....usually for me it's a matter of "timing the fly-by through the scope", however on those days of little swaying on the bucket the point of impact does match the point of aim more often.😋
Click to expand...

Yup! I do the same thing sometimes (timing the fly-by). But, due to family life, I really don't get out much and most of the squirrel hunting I do is in the ol back yard. When I do shoot standing, I brace against a door frame or a tree and that gives me enough leverage to make a clean shot most of the time. 
 
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....hmmm... those older gamos that have all metal barrels and lockup area do pretty good for me , and i have heard of guys modding their b3 underlevers (there's a utube video) - and some claimed to be able to light matches with their b3 chinese-communist (chi-com) air rifle. i remember when diana outsourced model 34 and 350 barrels to china (2010?) - and it did not go well at all for dianawerk . ( i need to quit cussing, guys - i'm beginning to work on that. ) sometimes i have to recrown the .25 trail xl barrels i get for $17 after the machine shop lathes them down to 2250/2400kt size o.d. instead of a choked barrel like green mtn and l.walther, it has more of a crimp at the crown where the last tad bit is somehow bent into the bore. i have been able to accurize all but one or two. but when i was writing here, i was remembering a .22 trail xl i got that maybe gene in sc had tuned - and did a great job, but it was spraying pellets in 10" groups. he had the gold trigger and had it had been worked on by a more experienced airgunsmith than myself, so i didnt hesitate to get a new barrel assy . it shot pretty well after that. i can fix most things, but not a bad barrel. the guy that taught me how to tune over the phone from alaska would call the guys that put that protective grease and gunk inside the bore to keep rust away - he'd call them the "barrel sh**ers" (or barrel crappers, for lack of the better word). ray moody (aka super6 on the yellow) - we joked about that quite a bit. i would occassionally get a webley / hatsan barrel that had only partial rifling - like it was quitting time and it just didnt get finished. if the gun groups well when you fire it without holding it while it is secured and the trigger only is touched, then it's not a barrel issue. i heard china makes good olympic match barrels and pellets , but those seem to be not available to others. duane sorenson , who helped begin compasseco , told me much about chinese airguns. they make their own pellets from a 5 or ten jsb pellet mold - that may have been singapore. ..........i havent pulled a trigger in months, so i know it wont be the gun to blame for me personally - for a good while. ive been ultra-light fishing lately. - paul. -ps: i took a few airgun magazines in with me to rehab about two years ago and only one other guy knew anything about adult airguns. we called him "shaky" . he had a nerve problem and had to have a lid or spill-proof drink container. he told me about him and his wife shooting pcp's together. i was shocked. he was doing pcp's before most of us, and way before the u.s. made many. i finally got the courage to ask him how he was able to shoot with the shakes all the time. he explained he would shoot as he swung the gun rt or left , almost like shooting a running or moving target. said he got pretty good like that.
 
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