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Signs of a Bad Regulator?

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wyshadow

wyshadow

Member
May 11, 2015
1,697
238
Las Cruces, New Mexico, United States
What are the signs if a regulator goes bad? What are the procedures to check if it is the regulator or if its another problem? I was shooting my .35 cricket two days ago and the gun was shooting really good. I was shooting small pieces of chalk from 50 to 75 yards. I was only able to record two pieces of chalk at 75 yards before it got to dark. I put the gun away and didn't touch it until this morning. Yesterday the winds were really bad and I really want to finish this video I've been working on for several weeks. I decided to get up early this morning and record several shots before it got windy again. I set up the gun and fired off several test shots and notice I didn't hit the target. I put on the camera to see where the pellet was hitting and noticed the POI was 10 inches low. I couldn't understand why the gun was so far off. I decided to send several pellets down range and see if the POI would return to where it is suppose to be at. I noticed if I filled the gun to 220 bar, the first 2 or 3 shots were a little off so I only fill the gun 210 bar. This is what I got:



As I sent pellet after pellet down range, the POI started to head towards the bulls eye. I normally fill the gun to 210 bar and noticed the regulator falls off about 120 bar. From what I can tell, the pellet increased in speed as the pressure in the tube decreased. Shooting JSB 81 grains. What do you think could be the problem? Thank you in advance
 
ok. Something is not right here. When I was shooting this gun two days ago and it was shooting really good. According to my phone, it says the gun shooting at 748 fps but here is my shot string I just did right now:
Start 220 Bar
First mag:
1 - 443
2 - 673
3 - 672
4 - 669
5 - 669
6 - 668
7 - 670
8 - 685

Second mag:
1 - 688
2 - 687
3 - 684
4 - 684
5 - 687
6 - 684
7 - 688
8 - 690

End 150 Bar Hi-690 Lo-443 AV-665 ES-247 SD-59
 
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Over taxation is always a sign of a bad regulator.
And a different subject, your numbers do indeed ( if correct, I've never seen a phone chony but) say something is very wrong.
Naturally in this fun hobby do keep in mind it " could" be something else. Dragging striker, some loose pin, striker or valve spring did so odd thing, other.
Still have a warrantee? Plan on making a video/picture tutorial on repairing it?


Keep us posted,

John
 
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Ok. I ran several shots over the chrony without fill up the gun to see how far the numbers will go before it starts to go back down. This is what I got:
3rd mag
1 - 688
2 - 693
3 - 691
4 - 690
5 - 693
6 - 697
7 - 697
8 - 700
9 - 708

120 Bar

4th mag
1 - 726
2 - 742
3 - 744
4 - 746
5 - 748
6 - 741
7 - 732
8 - 721
9 - 707

5th mag
1 - 689
2 - 668
3 - 649
4 - 618
5 - 600
6 - 572
7 - 545
8- 531
9 - 514

50 Bar

Hi - 748 Lo - 514 Av - 675 ES - 234 SD - 68

I was told the pressure gauge on the gun is off by 40 to 50 bar so I've using the gauge on my tank to fill the gun and not looking at the gun's gauge but it does make it hard to tell what the pressure is in the gun. I don't know what is wrong with this gun but if I had to guess, from looking at the numbers, I would say my regulator is not working. I may have to go through videos on youtube on how to take apart this gun and see if their is anything wrong with it. If anyone has any ideas, let me know
 
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"Gundog"I would throw out the 443 as a possible chrony error and if you do it is consistent what did it read the last time you shot these pellets over the chrony?
Click to expand...
I never shot the cricket over the chrony.The last time I used this chrony was when I had my disco. I felt the chrony already told me what I already know about my gun. Just as long as my guns are shooting accurately, I had no reason to bring out the chrony until now.
 
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There does seem to be something off with those numbers. When Michael got the same gun, he used to fill the gun till about 240 bar, used to fire only 2 mags 18 pellets. Beyond 2 mags the FPS would fall off too much. With 240 bar fill and 2 mags he Had an average FPS of 753, ES of 23 and SD of 6. 

While you are filling the gun to 220, the first 2 mags should get an average around the 730 to 750 range. The numbers you posted seems far lesser. Your 4th mag chrony numbers seem to be the most consistent. Maybe your regulator is kicking in much later than it should? i would have said, the shroud is clipping but that doesn't seem to be the case here since you are getting a vertical POI in your shots. Clipping would have caused a much more spread out group.

Suggest you Get the gun checked. 

 
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Wyshadow,
You made a conclusive statement that caught my eye. You mentioned that you normally fill to 220bar and since the first few shots were "low" you started to fill only to 210bar. I have a theory that the fill pressure is not the problem, but rather your regulator is being exposed to a pressure of the last shot pressure before you refill. In other words the reg is seeing say around 120bar, from your last shot before you refill, then you slowly refill to 220Bar and the reg really does not react to the new pressure as it should. This is just a theory based on my experience with an ongoing issue with a Vulcan .25 with the same first few shot characteristics after a fresh fill. (usually overnight) I have noticed a couple of things you might try that have been observed in my situation. Try, after a fresh fill, cocking and decocking the gun a couple of times before your first shot on the new fill. Let me know if this makes any difference. I am in the middle of an ongoing experiment with mine to see if I can obtain repeatable results, but this is a speculation on my part of what might help the situation. Currently I am working on filling at night, shooting in the AM with cock, decock and with out and filling in the AM and shooting right after with the same procedure. If I find any life changing repeatable results I will post for all.

Don't want to read all the text above? Try this:
Try, after a fresh fill, cocking and decocking the gun a couple of times before your first shot on the new fill.
 
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FunGun,
I did what you told me to do and the gun did better this time but the numbers still confuse me still. I empty the air pressure in the tank and refilled the gun back to 220 bar. I cocked the gun and decocked it several times before I started the chrony numbers. Here are the chrony numbers:
Start 220 Bar
1st Mag:
1 - 683
2 - 683
3 - 678
4 - 683
5 - 685
6 - 687
7 - 691
8 - 696
9 - 695

2nd Mag:
1 - 699
2 - 698
3 - 700
4 - 697
5 - 698
6 - 698
7 - 698
8 - 699
9 - 697
120 Bar
Hi-700 Lo-678 Av-692 ES-22 SD-7

The next two mags is where I'm confused

3rd Mag
1 - 701
2 - 702
3 - 705
4 - 726
5 - 737
6 - 747
7 - 756
8 - 748
9 - 745

4th Mag
1 - 736
2 - 725
3 - 713
4 - 699
5 - 667
6 - 648
7 - 619
8 - 586
9 - 564
80 Bar
Hi-756 Lo-564 Av-695 ES-192 SD-57

The first two mags the numbers look awesome but the 3rd mag the pellet velocity jumps higher and higher to speed where the gun was originally shooting three days ago. By the fourth mag the velocity drops off towards the end. I thinking what might have happened to the gun is some how the spring for the striker must have loosen or it might be broken. I'm going to watch a few clips of Ernest Rowe's vids and see about looking at the springs.
 
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It looks like you're dropping off the regulator and then seeing a bell curve (since you have the power set so low). The regulator is set pretty high on that gun. I always shot 2 magazines then refilled. There is NO way you can get 4 magazines out of that beast on a single fill. Maybe 3 magazines if you fill to 240 bar. 
 
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Hi Wyshadow,

the problem on your Cricket is that your reg does not work at all. You getting good chrony numbers when your pressure in tank drops. I think there is some dirt inside reg and it does not close properly. Just watch Robert Lane videos on youtube how reg works and how to clean it. O rings must be changed too.
Don't be afraid :) It is not so difficult as it seems.

Good luck!
 
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I think Michael is right on this one. As you start falling off the regulator you with get a velocity increase as you did around shot 22 and then as your air pressure decreases your velocity will fall off very quickly. Your first two mags are perfect. Fill to 240 or 250 and gain the shots on the top end. My regulated AA shows the same characteristics around shots 32or 32 in this string.
Jimmy
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Saab93Hi Wyshadow,

the problem on your Cricket is that your reg does not work at all. You getting good chrony numbers when your pressure in tank drops. I think there is some dirt inside reg and it does not close properly. Just watch Robert Lane videos on youtube how reg works and how to clean it. O rings must be changed too.
Don't be afraid :) It is not so difficult as it seems.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Where do I get an o-ring kit for my gun? I don't want to go to the hardware store comparing their assortment of o-rings
 
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Wyshadow - I think you are chasing ghosts. That gun is set up to be a powerful hunter (and it is an airghog). With the 82g pellet that gun should deliver 115 fpe at 815 fps, at 100 fpe at 750 fps. The regulator pressure is set pretty high in order to achieve those numbers, probably about 150 bar. So if you're filling to 220 bar then you're only on the reg from 220 bar to 150 bar. I'll bet a tin of pellets that if you turn the power up to where it was engineered to shoot, shoot two mags (or more) and after that it will drop off the regulator and you will see a steady decline in you're chrony string.

If your goal is to shoot it at a lower velocity and get more shots then you will have to lower the regulator pressure.
 
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