I don't want to sound like an alarmist but I'm concerned about the direction taken in the airgun community regarding the recent crop of high pressure air compressors and tanks. Some of these items are being sold from overseas without any certification or safety standards. HPA at 4500 psi is nothing to take lightly and could cause serious injury if not handled properly. I understand the desire to have inexpensive equipment but maybe a discussion about our safety is in order too. It only takes one accident to draw unfavorable attention to the airgun community.
Safety of new air compressors and tanks?
- Thread starter beeser
- Start date
Yes, but to a lesser extent. First of all airguns are not filled to the same high pressure. Secondly airguns are typically manufactured and sold by companies that have a continued stake in the industry. An inexpensive high pressure air compressor or tank from a nondescript source in China not so much.
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I bet a lot of the air gun companies farm out parts that are made in China too. And we are putting our faces against them while shooting. Even at 3000 psi it is no joke. I guess we need to have a little faith that the companies are researching and testing these products before selling them. Otherwise we will all be shooting springers again. lol. Problem is when they all say made in America or other countries that have higher standards we won't be able to afford them sadly.
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I forgot to add...Beeser. I think you are correct! But I don't know what we can do about it?
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It was not my intention to pick on any source or manufacturing origin but most if not all of the inexpensive high pressure air compressors seem to be coming from China. What to do? I'm not sure either hence the call for discussion. I think a step in the right direction is one that is happening at Extreme Benchrest based on a comment made earlier by member Percula. Apparently the Phoenix Airgun Club will be filling tanks at the event but only those properly certified and DOT approved. Not only is it safer for those around filling tanks but for those in attendance that happen to be nearby while they are being used.
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Beeser you are correct, this is a subject worthy of discussion. Another industry that is dependent on High Pressure Air (HPA) is the Scuba industry. Here in the States, The industry banned together and set standards in teaching and certification. PADI, Naui TDI, the list goes on, have all incorporated policies and standards of teaching and education. One fact that is shared across the diving certification industry is the need to respect HPA and follow the US standards for testing and certification of HPA cylinders. Retailers have generally adopted these same policies that you typically can't purchase scuba gear without the proper certifications. I will admit that this is not always the case, but bare with me. Most organized diving tours and dive locations also require each diver provide a proof of certification before being allowed to dive with their organization. It makes good business sense to protect people from themselves sometimes. Hence why most people that want to learn to Scuba Dive will get certified. There is a saying in the dive industry, an informed diver is a good diver, and a good diver never stops learning.
Now with that said I see your point, and let put a little finer point on it. How many times do we see airgunners talk about how they are going to get their own compressor, and forgo the Department of Transportation (DOT) requirement to get their tanks Hydro-statically tested every 5 years? Since they have their own compressor they can save $35-$50 bucks and not have to get their tanks tested. I have heard every excuse in the book, "that's for fireman scba since they are so rough on them", "these tanks are built to take it!". The list goes on.
HPA contained in a cylinder or a compressor will fatigue the cylinder over time, will it fail? Yes, over time. Compression-decompression cycles will wear out any cylinder that we see in the airgun community. When will it fail? That is the question, we all must face. Hence why we need to follow the guidelines for testing. Hydrostatic testing is there to provide a hint to us that when the elasticity of the tank or cylinder starts to wear out, that a failure is imminent. When the tank fails, we simply take it out of service. Better to know and be safe than to have to face your own demise or worse yet some one you love and cherish. I'll get off my stump now. lol.
But I will share this. I have been diving in third world countries that don't always follow the guidelines. If you pay attention they have stories of catastrophic failures that get passed around the diving community. Do you hear about it in the general public? Not so much, they will try to keep it low key. I have seen the remnants of two HPA cylinder failures outside of the US in my career. In both cases there was loss of life and limb.
The bottom line on this is if we don't follow the existing rules that are in place to protect us, we will have accidents.
Now with that said I see your point, and let put a little finer point on it. How many times do we see airgunners talk about how they are going to get their own compressor, and forgo the Department of Transportation (DOT) requirement to get their tanks Hydro-statically tested every 5 years? Since they have their own compressor they can save $35-$50 bucks and not have to get their tanks tested. I have heard every excuse in the book, "that's for fireman scba since they are so rough on them", "these tanks are built to take it!". The list goes on.
HPA contained in a cylinder or a compressor will fatigue the cylinder over time, will it fail? Yes, over time. Compression-decompression cycles will wear out any cylinder that we see in the airgun community. When will it fail? That is the question, we all must face. Hence why we need to follow the guidelines for testing. Hydrostatic testing is there to provide a hint to us that when the elasticity of the tank or cylinder starts to wear out, that a failure is imminent. When the tank fails, we simply take it out of service. Better to know and be safe than to have to face your own demise or worse yet some one you love and cherish. I'll get off my stump now. lol.
But I will share this. I have been diving in third world countries that don't always follow the guidelines. If you pay attention they have stories of catastrophic failures that get passed around the diving community. Do you hear about it in the general public? Not so much, they will try to keep it low key. I have seen the remnants of two HPA cylinder failures outside of the US in my career. In both cases there was loss of life and limb.
The bottom line on this is if we don't follow the existing rules that are in place to protect us, we will have accidents.
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Can I ask you guys a question? Im ignorant so bare with me. (or is it bear?) When I order a tank from a reputable online retailer do I have to worry about getting a quality tank? I recently bought a AV compressor and fill my own 4500 psi tank and always worry a little about the possibilities of a BOOM! But not enough to stop me. How do I know for sure i am getting a quality tank?
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Stick with know reputable brands. Like what beeser is trying to get at above. I know dive shops here in the states that refuse to fill tank not on their list. Some tanks were known to use either an alloy or lower quality steel or aluminum, and some were just not known or trusted. I work with chlorine gas and my company ordered off brand 45 min scba tanks, and turns out no one will refill them.
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Did you know BARE and BEAR have the same keystrokes, but just in different sequences? My bad. lol ( i fixed it.)thx
To address you question, You don't know anything for sure.
(Edit: that didn't sound very nice, sorry. Really was trying to imply we don't really know for sure, what we are getting when we buy a new tank.)
Here in the USA and any HPA tank that is sold must pass a HYDRO test before it can be sold for transport. Now with that said, you would have to go read all the DOT requirements on limitations of sizes, etc. In other words if we are talking about "tube" PCP guns, this may not apply.
You will see the "hieroglyphics" on the tank, on AL and steel tanks it is stamped on the neck, on CF tanks it is on a label under the overcoat. There are several websites that you can go to that will decipher the text for you. In a nut shell it will identify the MFG, date of MFG, the DOT specification that it was built under, the specified test pressure, working psg, etc.
Your only assurance is that your retailer, is reputable and does not want to be known for selling counterfeit goods. He wants to stay in business we hope.
Now does that mean the tank won't fail the first time you fill it up? nope, but you know it was tested after being mfg. I always stand back a ways when first filling a new tank or a tank I am not familiar with. I get a little nervous myself. I have filled tanks before that had the wrong size burst disc put in after a service job on the valve. That gets your attention real quick.
To address you question, You don't know anything for sure.
(Edit: that didn't sound very nice, sorry. Really was trying to imply we don't really know for sure, what we are getting when we buy a new tank.)
Here in the USA and any HPA tank that is sold must pass a HYDRO test before it can be sold for transport. Now with that said, you would have to go read all the DOT requirements on limitations of sizes, etc. In other words if we are talking about "tube" PCP guns, this may not apply.
You will see the "hieroglyphics" on the tank, on AL and steel tanks it is stamped on the neck, on CF tanks it is on a label under the overcoat. There are several websites that you can go to that will decipher the text for you. In a nut shell it will identify the MFG, date of MFG, the DOT specification that it was built under, the specified test pressure, working psg, etc.
Your only assurance is that your retailer, is reputable and does not want to be known for selling counterfeit goods. He wants to stay in business we hope.
Now does that mean the tank won't fail the first time you fill it up? nope, but you know it was tested after being mfg. I always stand back a ways when first filling a new tank or a tank I am not familiar with. I get a little nervous myself. I have filled tanks before that had the wrong size burst disc put in after a service job on the valve. That gets your attention real quick.
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I too have a couple of scuba tanks that where made with a particular alloy under DOT process standard that have since been required to be taken out of service, due to the alloy not standing up to the life cycle they anticipated. It does happen. I think I am going to cut the bottom out of it and make it into a shooting gong bell! That or a lamp. lol.
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Ok thanks. I don't like to think too hard on these things or I will stress. Thanks for the info guys. This is why I like this forum. Good info from great people.
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An excellent topic, so my thanks to the OP for opening the discussion.
An improperly repaired valve on a paintball bottle very nearly -and quite literally- killed me one night, and that's less pressure than we deal with in PCPs. I was fortunate to only lose two months off of work and not my life. Having learned from that experience I take this safety thing pretty seriously when I might otherwise have blown it off.
I have bought only brand-name equipment and will not under any circumstances risk my life on off-brand, so-called "bargain" Chinese stuff. Their tolerances, standards, and regulations are non existent in comparison to western practices.
Even then, when refilling my name brand bottle from my name brand compressor while using name brand hoses and fittings etc, I place the entire rig in a closet and close the door. No humans or pets allowed behind that door while filling, and only I am allowed behind that door -with safety glasses- until everything is depressurized (except the bottle of course) and stowed. Afterward, the bottle remains in that closet until needed.
The bottle itself is heavily padded, and during transportation to the range it stays tied down in the trunk. Under no circumstances should one be carried in the passenger compartment of a vehicle.
Those are my my two cents, and my thanks again to the OP for starting the discussion.
An improperly repaired valve on a paintball bottle very nearly -and quite literally- killed me one night, and that's less pressure than we deal with in PCPs. I was fortunate to only lose two months off of work and not my life. Having learned from that experience I take this safety thing pretty seriously when I might otherwise have blown it off.
I have bought only brand-name equipment and will not under any circumstances risk my life on off-brand, so-called "bargain" Chinese stuff. Their tolerances, standards, and regulations are non existent in comparison to western practices.
Even then, when refilling my name brand bottle from my name brand compressor while using name brand hoses and fittings etc, I place the entire rig in a closet and close the door. No humans or pets allowed behind that door while filling, and only I am allowed behind that door -with safety glasses- until everything is depressurized (except the bottle of course) and stowed. Afterward, the bottle remains in that closet until needed.
The bottle itself is heavily padded, and during transportation to the range it stays tied down in the trunk. Under no circumstances should one be carried in the passenger compartment of a vehicle.
Those are my my two cents, and my thanks again to the OP for starting the discussion.
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My springers are looking better and better. lol. Im glad you said that mousefart. Very scary what happened to you! I will definitely be more cautious. And your two cents are worth a lot when it comes to safety. I don't know if i would be playing with pcp's anymore if i were you. I would be too nervous. Im happy this topic was brought up by beeser. Make us all remember the potential of out of date, untested and improperly repaired air containers.
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I have a Daystate compressor, auto shut off etc. It is a quality compressor, but naturally you must take all precautions when using it. look it over before using and perform all of the required maintenance.
If it blows, i'll be the only one to go, no one else is in the garage.
My two scuba tanks are Faber Steel, rated at 3442 psi, i only fill these tanks to 3200 psi, i don't want the max or 10% over (the way we liked our cave diving tanks).
When i bought the Din to yoke adapter, i bought the 50 dollar stainless adapter rated for 3442, there were 25 dollar adapters that didn't mention material or rating.
My SCBA tank is the Omega from AOA, i only fill this tank to 4200 psi.
I have flown Airplanes and Helicopters for 45 years for a career in aviation. (most but not all of these aircraft were provided by the lowest bidder) I accepted the inherent risks but did my best to manage it, thorough pre flights and post flights, did my best to prevent complacency, and stuff still happened so you can't eliminate everything but you can be trained and prepared.
Most things have some associated risks (even being a couch potato)
If you want to take part in any activity then you have to accept some risk, but you also want to do your part to mange it, ie filling the tanks to a little lower than max, not storing your gun at max high pressure, fill it before shooting, handle your tanks with care, prevent them from rolling around during transport possible causing valve or tank issues etc. Selecting a safe place to use your compressor, insure all the maintenance is done on or before it is required.
Buy quality items from retailers/internet sellers with a good reputation. They have a vested interest in their products and normally do the research.
I like a bargain but not at the expense of safety.
It is kind of the wild west out there, so do your homework and make informed purchases and follow common sense safety, this forum has a lot of knowledgeable members and is one good source of technical information.
These are a few items that i think will provide safety for us and our family and help perpetuate this sport.
Safe shooting.
If it blows, i'll be the only one to go, no one else is in the garage.
My two scuba tanks are Faber Steel, rated at 3442 psi, i only fill these tanks to 3200 psi, i don't want the max or 10% over (the way we liked our cave diving tanks).
When i bought the Din to yoke adapter, i bought the 50 dollar stainless adapter rated for 3442, there were 25 dollar adapters that didn't mention material or rating.
My SCBA tank is the Omega from AOA, i only fill this tank to 4200 psi.
I have flown Airplanes and Helicopters for 45 years for a career in aviation. (most but not all of these aircraft were provided by the lowest bidder) I accepted the inherent risks but did my best to manage it, thorough pre flights and post flights, did my best to prevent complacency, and stuff still happened so you can't eliminate everything but you can be trained and prepared.
Most things have some associated risks (even being a couch potato)
If you want to take part in any activity then you have to accept some risk, but you also want to do your part to mange it, ie filling the tanks to a little lower than max, not storing your gun at max high pressure, fill it before shooting, handle your tanks with care, prevent them from rolling around during transport possible causing valve or tank issues etc. Selecting a safe place to use your compressor, insure all the maintenance is done on or before it is required.
Buy quality items from retailers/internet sellers with a good reputation. They have a vested interest in their products and normally do the research.
I like a bargain but not at the expense of safety.
It is kind of the wild west out there, so do your homework and make informed purchases and follow common sense safety, this forum has a lot of knowledgeable members and is one good source of technical information.
These are a few items that i think will provide safety for us and our family and help perpetuate this sport.
Safe shooting.
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Which one of you is Joe? To those who don't desire to fill to the claimed bottle's max fill pressure, how much stress does the Hydro test place on them????? If it passes hydro, go for the max fill.
I'm the one who asked about EBR and "DOT" approved tanks. I don't blame anyone for not wanted a person to bring a DOT non-certified tank to the party. I chose my Acecare to save a few bucks. Ya'll wish me dead, or ya'll gonna just pray for me? Don't bother on either account. Acecare has a reputation and I'm not too worried about it. Hope ya'll don't have to read my obituary, right?
I'd agree to always go certified. I think only certain folk ought to go outside the safety precautionary world of non DOT certified tanks. Though there are other certs besides DOT that another brand may obtain. Different countries, different certs.
And before anyone demonizes me, I publicly state that you all should buy certified and get certified. I won't be attending EBR so don't worry yourselves.
I'm the one who asked about EBR and "DOT" approved tanks. I don't blame anyone for not wanted a person to bring a DOT non-certified tank to the party. I chose my Acecare to save a few bucks. Ya'll wish me dead, or ya'll gonna just pray for me? Don't bother on either account. Acecare has a reputation and I'm not too worried about it. Hope ya'll don't have to read my obituary, right?
I'd agree to always go certified. I think only certain folk ought to go outside the safety precautionary world of non DOT certified tanks. Though there are other certs besides DOT that another brand may obtain. Different countries, different certs.
And before anyone demonizes me, I publicly state that you all should buy certified and get certified. I won't be attending EBR so don't worry yourselves.
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Wow... that ending story is Sad!
I will take HPA more seriously.
Thanks for pointing out how important is to follow HPA rules!
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Had myself an O-ring blowout, not on mee bum, but on my fill station that threads into the scba's valve. It was loud. No harm done but to the pride and near soiling myself.
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Beeser,
I want to thank you so much for starting this topic. I'm fairly new here and I've been wondering about safety precautions regarding everything PCP. But now that it's out here, I am now pre-warned and feeling much relief. Was contemplating one of these china imports, but never again. It just ain't worth it. I never will consider it again. I will stick to more tried and true products.
Thanks so much for helping me with this.
I want to thank you so much for starting this topic. I'm fairly new here and I've been wondering about safety precautions regarding everything PCP. But now that it's out here, I am now pre-warned and feeling much relief. Was contemplating one of these china imports, but never again. It just ain't worth it. I never will consider it again. I will stick to more tried and true products.
Thanks so much for helping me with this.
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