Ratting and penetration

Hey all,
I have a question about caliber choice and over penetration when it comes to rats. I know that my HW 110 sending Baracuda match pellets at around 900 fps will zip right through rats at 25 yards and ricochet around off my fence. I also know that my 18 ft/lb Ultra MMC will not usually over penetrate a squirrel when I use Polymags at short distances 9under 30 yards). If I were looking to dump the most energy into a target, while minimizing pass throughs, it seems like the .22 is a better choice. However, I am looking to get a dedicated rat gun (night vision, magazine fed, compact, quiet) that might not love Polymags like my Ultra, so I want something that will dump energy quickly, so that if it does pass through, it will not have enough energy to damage stuff behind it. So, my question for the masses is this: am I better getting a 17-18 ft/lb .22, like the Notos, or should I lean more towards a .177 in the 12-13 ft/lb range, like the Brocock Atomic? Or do you have another suggestion?
Thanks,
Chris
 
Hey all,
I have a question about caliber choice and over penetration when it comes to rats. I know that my HW 110 sending Baracuda match pellets at around 900 fps will zip right through rats at 25 yards and ricochet around off my fence. I also know that my 18 ft/lb Ultra MMC will not usually over penetrate a squirrel when I use Polymags at short distances 9under 30 yards). If I were looking to dump the most energy into a target, while minimizing pass throughs, it seems like the .22 is a better choice. However, I am looking to get a dedicated rat gun (night vision, magazine fed, compact, quiet) that might not love Polymags like my Ultra, so I want something that will dump energy quickly, so that if it does pass through, it will not have enough energy to damage stuff behind it. So, my question for the masses is this: am I better getting a 17-18 ft/lb .22, like the Notos, or should I lean more towards a .177 in the 12-13 ft/lb range, like the Brocock Atomic? Or do you have another suggestion?
Thanks,
Chris
I don't know the answer to your question but I have the notos as a pistol, I never put the stock on because I wanted a pistol so I got the factory grips and open sights..
so I'll tell you a little bit about it.. it's very quiet and shoots well and accurate with all the ammo I have.. crossman premier round nose, jsb 18 and jsb redesigned heavy.. the heavy hits the spinners really hard.. seems to like all the ammo I have.. I usually shoot pistol 30 yards at 3" spinners..
I think it starts dropping off on the last few shots of the 4 magazines I have.. works great, not jams or issues..
my only complaint are.. the moderator is great and quiet but it's 6" long and the gun is 16" so total length is 22" as a pistol.. just too long and heavy for single hand shooting..works great rested..the stock I just pushed on before I put the pistol grips on and it was snug and good even without the screws. I'm not into pistol carbine, I would rather a rifle.. but if you want compact carbine and light weight and quiet and accurate it's a good choice.. for me the stock is too short for open sights because you get too wide in the rear sight.. but that's not a issue if you scope it.. full length picatinny rail.. and well 4 magazines per fill and each hold I think 7 rounds..
I wish they would have made the moderator screw on and off.. for use as a pistol..
not sure what ammo is best for not having over penatreation.. probably a good hollow point.. I don't have any polymags.. so I don't know if they will fit.. but the jsb redesigned heavy are pretty long..
I also have heard of others worried about passing through at close range putting just a standard pellet in backwards so it like a huge hollow point.. I might try that today for accuracy and well I can shoot into wood to compare it with forward.. I'm guessing that you would use a lighter pellets like the crossman premier hollow point though.. I think heavy will pass through..
I have never adjusted anything on it but if you want to turn down the hammer spring it's a large screwdriver slot in the back..
for my use I wish I could have gotten the attaman ap16 compact pistol 22 or the new huben gk1 pistol 22..
please let me know if you have any questions about the notos and I will be happy to try to help you know anything about it..
Mark
 
I shot my fair share of rats. Even my 7 fpe .22 Crosman 2300KT CO2 pistol and HW30 could have pass-thrus but the 7 fpe ricochet sounded a lot weaker than ricochets from my 12fpe 177 HW110 or more powerful guns. I ended up sticking with the 2300KT and wadcutters in the hope they helped with energy dumping. My choice of pellet would remain the wadcutter if it gave adequate accuracy at the yardage you will shoot. I was also able to choose which gun to use depending upon the areas I hunted and concern for ricochets.

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They did not work for me in my P35-177 but several guys indicate 10 and 13 grain knockouts work well in their Stoeger bullsharks in 177. They will penetrate less than domed pellets but still may pass through rats on a lot of shots unless you decrease the regulator. My 177 is a P35 which is very similar but not exactly the same gun. The bullshark is about 6 lbs and the P35 is about 5. Both are under 30 inches long. In England the P35 comes tuned to 12 fpe. You have to order the P35 from Krale if you are in the U. S., they would probably sell you a 12 fpe gun if you asked for it. If not, the regulator is adjustable but you have to let the air out and open the air tube to get to it.
 
I shot my fair share of rats. Even my 7 fpe .22 Crosman 2300KT CO2 pistol and HW30 could have pass-thrus but the 7 fpe ricochet sounded a lot weaker than ricochets from my 12fpe 177 HW110 or more powerful guns. I ended up sticking with the 2300KT and wadcutters in the hope they helped with energy dumping. My choice of pellet would remain the wadcutter if it gave adequate accuracy at the yardage you will shoot. I was also able to choose which gun to use depending upon the areas I hunted and concern for ricochets.

43cb85767676aef8424a49a3772dab13.jpg


QzyCO3M.jpg
How did you get your HW110 down to 12 fpe? I would love to get mine to about 13.5 fpe. Did you adjust the hammer spring?
 
I turn my BRK XR Sniper .22 down to 1/2 to 1/4 power and use a Hades 15.9g pellet and have little to no pass through. My range is usually around 10 to 21 yards. I have not yet had a problem with the rat not being killed with the Hades and the lowest power setting! The plus is that the noise level goes to the ubiquitous "mouse fart" at low power! I have the PARD NV008S-LRF mounted on the BRK. This is my main ratting gun.
 
I shot my fair share of rats. Even my 7 fpe .22 Crosman 2300KT CO2 pistol and HW30 could have pass-thrus but the 7 fpe ricochet sounded a lot weaker than ricochets from my 12fpe 177 HW110 or more powerful guns. I ended up sticking with the 2300KT and wadcutters in the hope they helped with energy dumping. My choice of pellet would remain the wadcutter if it gave adequate accuracy at the yardage you will shoot. I was also able to choose which gun to use depending upon the areas I hunted and concern for ricochets.

43cb85767676aef8424a49a3772dab13.jpg


QzyCO3M.jpg
Thanks for this thread. I am going to shoot some rats in a animal food warehouse but the owner is worried about the pellets damaging the 0.5mm IBR walls. My normal 36fpe tune will definitely puncture the IBR. I told him I can lower the speed and then did some trail shooting on the same thickness scrap sheets. Using 5.5mm H&N 14.66 grain domed pellets at 460fps / 7fpe it makes a small dent in the IBR but will not puncture it at 25 meter. Even holding the barrel 15cm from the scrap sheet the dent is not much deeper as far as we can see. He is OK with that as long as I try to minimise the direct hits on the IBR and not shoot with food bags as backstop. Most shot distances will be between 10 and 20 meters and zeroing at 17 meter gives it a 10mm diameter when calculating the PBR on Strelok with PBR from 9 - 19 meters and retained energy of about 6fpe. The precision is OK at about 10mm group at 25 meter and even less at closer distances. That will ensure more direct hits on the rats.

So, you say 7fpe is enough to cleanly kill a rat, obvious with good shot placement at the head or heart/lung area? Your picture evidence clearly show that. Did you get any 7fpe shots where you whish you had more power. I know 12fpe will be better but the warehouse owner is hesitant to let me adjust to that.
 
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Oops, I only now see that "wahoowad" was last on the forum on 2 January 2024. Anybody else with experience on low power 7fpe rat shooting?
I set up my PP700SA shooting 8.44gr jsb at 7fpe. I take all my shots from a known distance, 18 yards, and it does the trick. I set it up to shoot invasive agama lizards, but it kills the small rats we have here just as well. I can’t remember about pass through, but I have a good backstop for my birdfeeder. Three layers of wood fence and an oak tree behind that.

The more important number is to know what the energy is at the target. Ethical kills are a combination of having the right energy and the skill to hit the off switch in my opinion. That’s why I only kill mostly at 25 yards and under. I take “easy” shots for the animals benefit. I also don’t want my kill to die in my neighbors yard.

Sorry, I went soapbox.
 
Sorry, I went soapbox.
Well, I asked for it. Thanks for the reply.

The more important number is to know what the energy is at the target.
Jip, like Sterlok indicates it will be about 6fpe at max distance of 20 meters.

I take “easy” shots for the animals benefit.
That is sort of my motto as well. That is why I checked at 25 meter, zero at 17 and plan to shoot at max distance of 20 meter.
Like when hunting big game. I know the rifle has the power and accuracy to bring down a antelope at say 500 meter and I can easily do it, but the maximum distance I hunt is 200 meter, preferably closer than that. For me it is about the hunt, not long distance life target shooting.

I set up my PP700SA shooting 8.44gr jsb at 7fpe. I take all my shots from a known distance, 18 yards, and it does the trick.
That is what I want to confirm, thanks.
 
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Rats are thin skinned vermin so it is very difficult not to have pass through, particularly if sending with a platform generating more than 12 FPE at the muzzle. 2-3 FPE, well placed at POI will take out the biggest Norway Rattus. Its about being inventive in the environment you’re pursuing them in. For me it has always been a patterning of their movements. And then adapting so that my shots have a good backstop. If in doubt? Don’t send the projectile…
 
2010 was a wet year here and helped explode a rat problem in the parrot room (parrots are messy eaters). These were "roof rats" weighing up to half a pound. I shot a dozen or so with a 7 ft# Browning .177 pistol and another dozen with a Daisy multipump at around 4-5 ft#. Both are estimates of energy at impact and both penetrated the rats. I preferred the Daisy as it wouldn't penetrate 1/4" of plywood between the rat areas and parrot cages; sometimes with 7ft# the pellet would peek through. So yes, I'd recommend low power for that distance and pest.
FWIW,
The cat caught more than both guns combined and didn't have to worry about backstop, but that was an exceptionally good cat.
The rat problem finally went away when I rehomed the parrots.
 
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The cat caught more than both guns combined and didn't have to worry about backstop, but that was an exceptionally good cat.
The problem with most cats is that they are like teenagers, overfed and lazy. They will catch one rat, play with it and then maybe eat it and go sleep in a cosy place.