Want to know how you choose your scope criteria, based on Lens clarity, reticle design and mechanism? like to hear specially in what would you have as a compromise on your selections.
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Points the scope selection
- Thread starter Fuciliere
- Start date
Ability to clearly see 177 pellet holes and ants on a 100 yard paper target that's as cheap as possible.
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Reticle design for me is number one. Don’t care how awesome the scope might be, if I don’t like the reticle it’s a nonstarter. Can’t imagine having all the scopes I would be interested in, in one place at the same time so that my “old eyes” could look through them. But I can look at many different reticle designs on my iPad. My experience is with simple Christmas tree reticles, ex: Aztec Emerald DYND-1 or Athlon Helos APLR2. Both excellent reticles for repeatable hits in steady winds.
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Reticle is #1
If the reticle is not what I'm looking for, nothing else matters.
I currently prefer scopes in the 16x-32x range with FFP MOA reticles. The Athlon APLR2 MOA and APLR4 MOA reticles are the type I like best. I use the reticle for holdover, windage, measuring for click corrections, and ranging targets
If being used for FT, the #2 is ability to focus down to 10 yds.
Then appropriate objective diameter. 16x at least 44mm, 24x at least 50mm, 30x+ should be 56mm.
I'll pay more for better glass but not a requirement for me.
Locking, re-settable turrets.
A lot of the details will depend on how you intend to use it.
If the reticle is not what I'm looking for, nothing else matters.
I currently prefer scopes in the 16x-32x range with FFP MOA reticles. The Athlon APLR2 MOA and APLR4 MOA reticles are the type I like best. I use the reticle for holdover, windage, measuring for click corrections, and ranging targets
If being used for FT, the #2 is ability to focus down to 10 yds.
Then appropriate objective diameter. 16x at least 44mm, 24x at least 50mm, 30x+ should be 56mm.
I'll pay more for better glass but not a requirement for me.
Locking, re-settable turrets.
A lot of the details will depend on how you intend to use it.
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First I go for the, type, size, weight, and cost I want in a scope.
Second is the Reticle itself I need to like and be able to use it well. I'm with L.Leon with this and like the same scopes.
Third would be clarity of the lenses like Odoyle I need to be able see a .177 pellet hole in a target at 100 yards.
Forth I require that a scope has both an MOA turrets and an MOA Reticle or MIL MILL as it may be.
Fifth would be the turret dialing fairly precise click and definitely repeatable adjustments are required.
I might be able to compromise on my forth and fifth requirements if I desire an inexpensive say $200 scope.
I might compromise on the third requirement also if I am not going to use the scope at 100 yards or better.
Second is the Reticle itself I need to like and be able to use it well. I'm with L.Leon with this and like the same scopes.
Third would be clarity of the lenses like Odoyle I need to be able see a .177 pellet hole in a target at 100 yards.
Forth I require that a scope has both an MOA turrets and an MOA Reticle or MIL MILL as it may be.
Fifth would be the turret dialing fairly precise click and definitely repeatable adjustments are required.
I might be able to compromise on my forth and fifth requirements if I desire an inexpensive say $200 scope.
I might compromise on the third requirement also if I am not going to use the scope at 100 yards or better.
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so which of the scopes can you see the ant at a 100? the alpha 6 maybe that Yo talks about?
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Hmmmm....... I've been getting a bit spoiled with very good to great glass. Over the past 3 years I've learned a ton about scopes and right now my #1 has got to be good clear glass. With good clear glass you do not need 100x magnification to take a good shot. 8x at 50 yards is plenty now and I can see my .177 holes with no issue, whereas before I started focusing on glass I felt compelled to go in the 16-20x min for 50 yards.
Next is reticle. Nice clean and accurate. Can be mil-dot or tree but gotta be clean. Along with the reticle itself I am now requiring IR and FFP. I can work with SFP, but don't prefer it unless it's the only option.
Turrets - I''m not going to grind them to death, but you gotta be able to at least adjust for holdover accurately and be able to get back to zero reliably. Also mil-mil or moa-moa - what is the point even of a mil-dot reticle with moa turrets (or vice versa)? I don't have a requirement for zero-stop (right now) but turrets do need to be zero-able.
Focus - down to 10 yards is a requirement.
Size and weight is very dependent on what the scope is being mounted on. Max price range is something I will pre-determine before the search begins.
Next is reticle. Nice clean and accurate. Can be mil-dot or tree but gotta be clean. Along with the reticle itself I am now requiring IR and FFP. I can work with SFP, but don't prefer it unless it's the only option.
Turrets - I''m not going to grind them to death, but you gotta be able to at least adjust for holdover accurately and be able to get back to zero reliably. Also mil-mil or moa-moa - what is the point even of a mil-dot reticle with moa turrets (or vice versa)? I don't have a requirement for zero-stop (right now) but turrets do need to be zero-able.
Focus - down to 10 yards is a requirement.
Size and weight is very dependent on what the scope is being mounted on. Max price range is something I will pre-determine before the search begins.
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@ctshooter, good to great glass, yes... but how many have the opportunity to look through multiple top tier scopes at the same time? You have been fortunate to be spoiled by good glass. But that still leaves many shooters with “buy and try” as far as glass quality. Reticles are a lot easier to decide on without actually looking through a scope. Only if a reticle is useful to me do I delve further into the feature set of a particular scope.
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RETICLE first, COST second (fixed income sucks) and thirdly GLASS. My 3 basic criteria. Even when I first started the cheapest scopes I ever owned had glass that allowed me to see what I was aiming at. Luckily, my eyesight has not deteriorated as quickly with age as other bodily parts. When looking for scopes the reticle always determines whether I need to research any further. Luckily I only own 2 rifles that check every single box for me & the 2 scopes I own, Hawke sidewinder 6x24x56 & Discovery VT-T FFP, are more than adequate for my needs & demands. My equipment never lets me down. If anything, it's vice versa.
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This is only partially applicable to me. I started with Bug Busters just like everyone else. I have nowhere to go nor any shooting mates to share scopes with. I've had to do the same thing most here do - buy and pray. It wasn't until just a few months ago I got anything over a few hundred dollars. The only scope I had to base good glass on was a Dedal Stalker and I knew I wanted something of that optical quality but with more robust usable features such a zoom and accurate/repeatable turrets.
And now I'd rather have one great $2,000 scope than 4-5 good scopes. The difference to me with great glass has been night and day. YMMV
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Ctshooter you should try the Bushnell Front focus 5-15x40 Mildot that's JAPAN MADE its pretty damn incredible for only $278 on EBay. I think SWFA sells them for $299.
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I think, the importance of different criteria and features depends very much on the type of shooting you want to do with the scope...!
My type of shooting: hunting (from 10 to 100 yards), and some informal target shooting, with a .22 bullpup (so, springer rated is not a concern, but would be no. 1 on the criteria list of course). To adjust my POA I use turret dialing and/or reticle holdoffs.
My criteria, in order of importance
(1) Price = around $350 to $500 (yes, that means that I'm not looking for super clear amazing glass....)
(2) Field of view (bottom end magnification) = at the very least 23ft @100y at the bottom end magnification (usually around 5x or 4x), for those close range stalking shots, better is 30ft (3x) and more
(3) Top end magnification = at least 16x, but better 20x or 24x
(4) Parallax = 10 yards min.
(5) Parallax adjustment = Side focus (not AO, it's awkward to reach so far forward)
(6) Turret "mechanism"(?) = turrets track true, e.g., a certain setting always moves the reticle to the same place
(7) Turrets = exposed (not capped!), because I often like to dial my elevation
(8) Reticle = Holdoff reticle (evenspaced hash lines; no BDC, no simple crosshairs); some numbers would be nice (every 2MIL/5MOA); grid style maybe; outside posts must be thick so that the reticle is visible on low magnification (as I require an FFP scope)
(9) Turrets and reticle speak the same language = MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA (so that I only need to memorize and carry one range card for both elevation turret dialing and holdovers)
(10) Focal plane = Front focal plane (FFP; not SFP) (so that my holdovers with the reticle are always the same, no matter what magnification I happen to use)
(11) Glass quality = clarity, resolution, and contrast, yes please, because I'd like to see .22 pellet holes in paper at 100y with eyes that used to be young; however, I can live quite well with chromatic aberrations and deteriorations at the outer edges of the scope image
(12) Illumination = Yes
(13) Max. elevation adjustment = At least 50MOA adjustment, to be able to dial for long ranges and heavy projectiles
(14) Zero stop = Yes (so I find my zero with confidence after being all over the elevation turret)
(15) Turret revolution counters = Yes (so I know how many revolutions my turret is turned up or down)
(16) Turret clicks per one full revolution = 10MIL (or 25MOA) (so I have to do less revolutions and get less lost between settings)
(17) Objective lens = 50mm minimum
(18) Weight = 30oz or more is just fine for me
(19) Length = 15" or more is just fine for me
Matthias
PS: The Falcon S18i 3-18x50 FFP delivered (except for no. 14) ALL of the above. And often more! 90MOA elevation adjustment. Superwide FoV (39ft @ 100y). Springer rated. Under $400.
My type of shooting: hunting (from 10 to 100 yards), and some informal target shooting, with a .22 bullpup (so, springer rated is not a concern, but would be no. 1 on the criteria list of course). To adjust my POA I use turret dialing and/or reticle holdoffs.
My criteria, in order of importance
(1) Price = around $350 to $500 (yes, that means that I'm not looking for super clear amazing glass....)
(2) Field of view (bottom end magnification) = at the very least 23ft @100y at the bottom end magnification (usually around 5x or 4x), for those close range stalking shots, better is 30ft (3x) and more
(3) Top end magnification = at least 16x, but better 20x or 24x
(4) Parallax = 10 yards min.
(5) Parallax adjustment = Side focus (not AO, it's awkward to reach so far forward)
(6) Turret "mechanism"(?) = turrets track true, e.g., a certain setting always moves the reticle to the same place
(7) Turrets = exposed (not capped!), because I often like to dial my elevation
(8) Reticle = Holdoff reticle (evenspaced hash lines; no BDC, no simple crosshairs); some numbers would be nice (every 2MIL/5MOA); grid style maybe; outside posts must be thick so that the reticle is visible on low magnification (as I require an FFP scope)
(9) Turrets and reticle speak the same language = MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA (so that I only need to memorize and carry one range card for both elevation turret dialing and holdovers)
(10) Focal plane = Front focal plane (FFP; not SFP) (so that my holdovers with the reticle are always the same, no matter what magnification I happen to use)
(11) Glass quality = clarity, resolution, and contrast, yes please, because I'd like to see .22 pellet holes in paper at 100y with eyes that used to be young; however, I can live quite well with chromatic aberrations and deteriorations at the outer edges of the scope image
(12) Illumination = Yes
(13) Max. elevation adjustment = At least 50MOA adjustment, to be able to dial for long ranges and heavy projectiles
(14) Zero stop = Yes (so I find my zero with confidence after being all over the elevation turret)
(15) Turret revolution counters = Yes (so I know how many revolutions my turret is turned up or down)
(16) Turret clicks per one full revolution = 10MIL (or 25MOA) (so I have to do less revolutions and get less lost between settings)
(17) Objective lens = 50mm minimum
(18) Weight = 30oz or more is just fine for me
(19) Length = 15" or more is just fine for me
Matthias
PS: The Falcon S18i 3-18x50 FFP delivered (except for no. 14) ALL of the above. And often more! 90MOA elevation adjustment. Superwide FoV (39ft @ 100y). Springer rated. Under $400.
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While I wouldn’t buy anything that did not have a reticle I liked and proven reliability I put glass quality at the top of my criteria. I enjoy watching nature through my scope as much as shooting.
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it changes,say springers,got to be rated for them,then a AO lens,then length and weight and clarity...because I shoot springers under 40yds.I don't really did a big powerful heavy scope.
PCP are much easier,clarity,weight,AO....I know good brands and models and stick with them.Another plus= I can use them on powder burners.
PCP are much easier,clarity,weight,AO....I know good brands and models and stick with them.Another plus= I can use them on powder burners.
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Close focus is #1 nowadays for me for airguns, even 25Y focus can get frustrating because I don't like dialing down to low mag to eliminate blur at 15Y, etc, I prefer 10Y in general. Plus I tend to switch scopes around and don't want to be hindered by 25Y or 50Y minimum focus.
FFP .2 mil reticles, "all .2 mil hashes" - not mixed with .5's at all!
Next is good glass, it's hard to explain unless one has experienced this but my eyes don't jive with the glass prescription in some otherwise good quality scopes??!! Pisses me off because I don't want to pay the big bucks to get what I want. Oh well, I've sold thousands of dollars worth of stuff recently that I wasn't enthralled with so I have the $ now.
It's very hard to find the above combo of prefered attributes together all in one scope, (Yes I'm picky) so I keep selling rifles and scopes to fund these nicer scopes and guns. Been that way since I bought my first Bushnell HDMR as far as scopes go. Well I guess also that way since I was a kid, I always hated not having good stuff and equally hated things breaking. When I was 15 years old I had an Anschutz 22rf and a crappy scope on it that caused POI shifts, what'd I do??, I bought a nicer scope and had a gunsmith drill and tap the receiver and install weaver mounts and rings. Problem solved.
It can be largely assumed that nicer scopes will track and do everything else an optical gun sight is supposed to do with excellence......
So a March HM 5-42x56 is being assembled for me at Deon this week. About 3 weeks it'll be here. My savings feels like this
and my heart feels like this
FFP .2 mil reticles, "all .2 mil hashes" - not mixed with .5's at all!
Next is good glass, it's hard to explain unless one has experienced this but my eyes don't jive with the glass prescription in some otherwise good quality scopes??!! Pisses me off because I don't want to pay the big bucks to get what I want. Oh well, I've sold thousands of dollars worth of stuff recently that I wasn't enthralled with so I have the $ now.
It's very hard to find the above combo of prefered attributes together all in one scope, (Yes I'm picky) so I keep selling rifles and scopes to fund these nicer scopes and guns. Been that way since I bought my first Bushnell HDMR as far as scopes go. Well I guess also that way since I was a kid, I always hated not having good stuff and equally hated things breaking. When I was 15 years old I had an Anschutz 22rf and a crappy scope on it that caused POI shifts, what'd I do??, I bought a nicer scope and had a gunsmith drill and tap the receiver and install weaver mounts and rings. Problem solved.
It can be largely assumed that nicer scopes will track and do everything else an optical gun sight is supposed to do with excellence......
So a March HM 5-42x56 is being assembled for me at Deon this week. About 3 weeks it'll be here. My savings feels like this
and my heart feels like this Upvote 0
I try to get the most bang for my buck so I look at scopes that shoot way above there price ranges. I also don't like scopes with everything under the sun on them. They need to have excellent turrets and tracking, good clear glass and now after having one a zero stop. Reticle has to be clean and no clutter. Also aim point needs to be floating either dot or cross works for me. For me the only ones I will look at anymore are the Athlon Midas Tac and Arken SH-4 scopes. I would like to try one of the 34mm tube Arkens but just don't need a scope of that size. Also prefer scopes with 30mm tube and 44mm objective. The Midas I love is a 4-16x44 MIL and the Arken I love is the 4-14x44 MIL version. There no BS scopes and they just have turrets and a side focus and both have easy to use and excellent working zero stops. No IR for me just unwanted bulkiness for my uses. If I have the money I'd pick the Athlon every time but if I need a scope in the $350 range hands down Arken is the one I'm getting
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Thanks a lot for all the input here, definitely got a lot of good point in scope selection. my follow next question would be what would you consider the bench mark scope for 50 yards, 100 yards, bench rest or hunting and pesting.
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