My $0.02 on MOA claims without pictures.

[2manyAirGunz]

Even if pics are posted how would you know the actual distance of the shots taken? If one is incline to lie about the gun's accuracy, he could shoot groups at 15 yards and then claim they were done at 150 yards.

I always laugh at the insert -- purporting to indicate the gun's performance -- included with new airgun purchases.

I think I have a feel for authentic shot-groups. And I do enjoy seeing the pictures of these groups and reading genuine stories of exceptional airgun accuracy.

Can you explain how an "authentic shot-group" "feels" to you. Hard concept to grasp that one can "tell" that such is true.

No.

It's not that important to me. Maybe you can find someone else to interrogate harass.

 

[Guest]

Hmm we should do scope cams. 

 

[Guest]

Totally agree with OP, just add a scope NBC cam is all. And yeah, people say 100 yards a lot around here. Most of my shots are between 25-45 yards. Beyond that I have to shoot in zero wind, which is really hard to do where I am as the wind is constant unless it is the morning, and unlike you MOA guys, I have kids



PS: OP I tend to nearly agree with every post of yours. Thoughtful posts!

 

[L.Leon]

I have no personal delusion in my hobby shooting. Most of the good PCPs north of 1K can shoot MOA at 50 yards or should be able to consistently. The shooter doing their part of course. I don’t believe shooting MOA “consistently” means every time, for every group, does anyone? In the end the groups mean nothing to anyone but the shooter/poster. Questioning their integrity via a faceless forum is quite another thing.

 

[Removed]

I have no personal delusion in my hobby shooting. Most of the good PCPs north of 1K can shoot MOA at 50 yards or should be able to consistently. The shooter doing their part of course. I don’t believe shooting MOA “consistently” means every time, for every group, does anyone? In the end the groups mean nothing to anyone but the shooter/poster. Questioning their integrity via a faceless forum is quite another thing.

I agree with this 100%, it's natural to want to post cherry picked groups I think. Rarely do I see duplicate 100 yard groups from my own personal experience. Conditions for me have to be really good and usually never are. 

 

[davidsng]

As far as pictures and cameras go, Who is to say that they came from your cam or your gun , or even if it was really you . Bragging is as bragging , so what ? It's only on a key board.

We'll this where those little green dots come into play. Also, you can verify it by reticle ranging, the way they hold their cross-hairs, and the arch (trajectory) of the pellet/slug. If know this sport well enough, you put the pieces together to verify it.

Most respectable members on this forum are not trying to showboat (s**k their own d***) how good of shot they are. They are posting to prove a gun's capability to other members who are thinking about buying it. These things are expensive and we are trying to save each other $. 

So, who cares who is shooting it? You can see by the way they hold their cross-hairs if they are actually a good shot or not, or if your better.

 

[Yo]

And most importantly how do you know they re not cheating and making swaging their own home made pellets and slugs posting YouTube videos shooting through their scope cam?

That already gives a major BS to me because there is a huge difference in accuracy between commercially sold and hand made.

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Anyone that knows me, knows I'm a straight shooter. I don't care for BS, nor do I tolerate it. My word is my reputation. Additionally, I don't care to impress or make a show of things. If it looks like I do, it's because I'm excited to share something. 



At any rate, I honestly don't care if anyone believes what I say. Doesn't change anything on my end. Besides, I've got a fx crown with a long slug barrel. With as much time as I've spent fiddling and tuning, I'd be severely impressed if I couldn't shoot moa maybe someday I'll take pics, but in practice... I almost never use the slug barrel. Or shoot that far

 

[stoti]

The reason that this bothers me so much is that newbies or even just new owners of a particular gun see these incredible groups and then go crazy because their gun can’t come close shooting similar groups. Same goes for long range pesting videos where they show only hits and no misses. It gives people a false sense of reality!
For the most part, people that have been around air guns a while know what and what isn’t real. 
I get that people want to show their groups and are proud, I show my boys Alex and Cooper’s groups pretty often. Just be honest.

stoti

 

[O2bmark]

The scores of top shooters during competition tell a better story of what is repeatable capability. Of course many of us never shoot matches. I consider a rifles grouping capability one that can be demonstrated on command over and over. My best groups have been in wind with me doping each shot for perceived changes in the wind. Why this happens instead of rifle locked down POA in no wind is a mystery but can be attested to by many benchresters (firearm). Two decades or more ago I was talking to an Army sniper at a Hi-Power match who told me that snipers couldn't care less about 1/4 moa rifles. What they wanted was a 1.5 or even 2 moa rifle that delivered every day maintaining zero. For sniping or hunting, if you have a 2 moa rifle for 5 shots, probably more than half of those shots will be 1 moa so you hit 3 out of 5 sparrows at 100yds, the more important part being stable zero. Grouping independent of stable predicable zero is not only useless but provides a false confidence. Benchresters are often more engineer and chemist than shooter (firearm). I'm a traditionalist who values hitting a target and doing so predictably.

 

[bucketboy]

I shoot sub12fpe airguns, on the very rare occasion when there is absolutely no wind I have shot 100yards sub moa groups with 3 of my guns. However even the slightest of breeze and get within 6” is good shooting.

I don’t have a scope came and I don’t usually bother to take phots of my targets unless the group is a little bit special.

While pellet testing a couple of months ago with one of my .177 Theoben rapids I shot these 10 shot groups at 25yards 

for scale I placed the type of pellet next to the hole they made. While the AA Diablo fields were the tightest, jsb heavies weren’t bad either and even the jsb monsters at only 620fps were pretty respectable.

while ‘this card might not look anything special this a a 26 shot group at 25 yards with .22 jsb Stratton’s @575fps. Fairly respectable for a pointed pellet.

Bb

 

[jdanvers]

Wow -- timing (happening upon this thread). Readers digest - I'm playing with the H&N slugs and, well, messed with something I shouldn't have messed with - my well tuned air rifle that was already shooting really well with the jsb knockouts. Anyway . . . I have it shooting pretty well again now with these new (to me) slugs and it may actually be a better tune than before (1). I had actually thought of video'ing it too per the undercurrent in this thread but thought A) - "dead space" in the video in between shots, B) it'd wind up being a "long'ish" video, C) <- referring to "B" - I only have a 32gig card in my scope cam and don't know just exactly how long it'll record for before filling. Finally - D) to most people on my facebook feed - it would probably be boring. I never really even considered posting any of it / them here as I know a lot of you guys are *REALLY* good shooters and some of you are also *REALLY* knowledgeable too.

(1) - the scope cam has served a secondary, unexpected, purpose for me anyway. While being entertaining to watch my shoots, what I've discovered is where I'm making LOTS of mistakes. Singularly the biggest one where I'm "sitting" on target *WAY* to long before actually pulling the damned trigger. You can really see this when playing back in slo mo . . . Coming back on topic - my hundred yard group from earlier today - I'm really trying to not "dawdle" and just "hover" over a target - just get the cross hairs on target and repeatably and smoothly as possible - just pull ( squeeze ) the trigger. These are my 10 today @100 - video no. Picture yeah. Kinda "proud of it"? Yeah.

Copy and paste in below my from facebook post.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


You know what they say about if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Yeah. Well .... I purchased this new ammo and really wanted to test it. I had this gun shooting lights out with the other ammo I was using and was really hesitant about making any changes to it at all. But I did - and for a few days have been kicking myself in the ass for having done so but being stubborn and persistent as I can be ... I may have it shooting even *better* now. ;-)

... being relatively happy with the tune I've got with it now, I decided to eat a chocolate bar and drink some soda, because that's what you do prior to attempting some 100 yard shooting. <grin> I stuck the target to the back of the candy bar wrapper and then walked it out to my 100 yd mark. 10 shots later ... I think this is my best one yet. ( I haven't done one of these in a few weeks .... )

The target is 3" total. The 10 ring (bullseye) is 1" or the size of a nickel.

I'm getting better ....

 

[Greenarrow]

What I don't understand is why anyone would feel like they had to lie about their groups size? If I shot an awesome group and posted about it (pictures or not) it's just to get some "Atta boys". I certainly wouldn't want to come on here and tell ya I did something that I didn't just for some false praise. Doesn't make sense to me so I would tend to give the person claiming it the benefit of the doubt. It certainly is a good motivator to get out there and shoot more to see if I can improve.

 

[Removed]

What I don't understand is why anyone would feel like they had to lie about their groups size? If I shot an awesome group and posted about it (pictures or not) it's just to get some "Atta boys". I certainly wouldn't want to come on here and tell ya I did something that I didn't just for some false praise. Doesn't make sense to me so I would tend to give the person claiming it the benefit of the doubt. It certainly is a good motivator to get out there and shoot more to see if I can improve.

Because showing poor groups doesn't get you free poop that's why! Lol You want honesty, well there you have it. A few will read this and know exactly what I'm talking about. 

 

[Yo]

What I don't understand is why anyone would feel like they had to lie about their groups size? If I shot an awesome group and posted about it (pictures or not) it's just to get some "Atta boys". I certainly wouldn't want to come on here and tell ya I did something that I didn't just for some false praise. Doesn't make sense to me so I would tend to give the person claiming it the benefit of the doubt. It certainly is a good motivator to get out there and shoot more to see if I can improve.

Because showing poor groups doesn't get you free poop that's why! Lol You want honesty, well there you have it. A few will read this and know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[tor47]

If Ted Bier is not faking it, I am very impressed by his 10 shot groups. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_or7jnakYiE&t=136s

 

[270windude]

Stoti mentioned a very good point. I’ve certainly bought guns due to the touted accuracy claims and was disappointed. It got me a couple times before I learned. I take most you tube videos to be nothing more then a commercial now, since that’s exactly what it is half the time. I also learned what to expect from a given platform. So I now have a general framework to base my purchases on. Logically, the poor shooting guns or the poor shot groups will be less frequent online then the good ones. Maybe some of us could start posting some negative reviews :/

 

[Yo]

If Ted Bier is not faking it, I am very impressed by his 10 shot groups. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_or7jnakYiE&t=136s

I bought the same pellet measuring contraption he uses. He discussed it on one of his videos if it's still posted. Thats how he won EBR. The device maker shared this little secret so I bought one. Either that was an old tin when JSBs were still the best and consistent or sorted with the contraption.

 

[Yo]

The reason that this bothers me so much is that newbies or even just new owners of a particular gun see these incredible groups and then go crazy because their gun can’t come close shooting similar groups. Same goes for long range petting videos where they show only hits and no misses. It gives people a false sense of reality!
For the most part, people that have been around air guns a while know what and what isn’t real. 
I get that people want to show their groups and are proud, I show my boys Alex and Cooper’s groups pretty often. Just be honest.

stoti

Oh the guns may be identical but it's the pellets that differentiate the videos and what the end buyer deals with in real life for example Air Hunters SA had shown on video they swaged their pellets to get perfect match grade accuracy for those really long shots and that's why I bought one of them and there's a hands down night and day difference in accuracy with the swage your own kit and commercially sold pellets that everyone else are at their mercy of in QC.

 

[tor47]

Well, there is some tricks some does use. Some may shoot 3 shot groups, where luck is a bigger part. Some might shoot 5 shots where one is a flyer, and then say "disregard the flyer, it was me, not the gun" and then measure only 4. Or take another shot, and measure 5, out of 6 shots, with the same explanation, and suddenly the fliers disappear