So for the past few years I have been using the .25 Hades for squirrels with good success. I was thinking about trying the 33.95 King Heavy’s. Anybody used them on greys? How did they work? Thanks for the feedback!
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Hunting grays with King Heavy’s vs Hades in .25
- Thread starter LSS152
- Start date
Of course they will work 
Tad overkill tho.
Been harvesting Greys for over 50 years now with 12 fpe or less airguns.
Placement trumps power every day of the week !!
Tad overkill tho.Been harvesting Greys for over 50 years now with 12 fpe or less airguns.
Placement trumps power every day of the week !!
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They die the same death as they do with a Hades. I shoot a lot of squirrel every year with my .25’s, each gun using different projectiles. Bottom line is a pellet gun is a pellet gun. If you are vital shooting a squirrel, they are tough and take a hit from a 22lr and still make a break for it. For me over the course of 20+ squirrel shot with Hades and 33’s, no big difference. If you want to see noticeable differences with an airgun, you have to start sending stuff approaching a 22rf. Even then some of them still take a hit like a trooper.
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The only benefit of shooting something heavier like the king heavies, is they’re a little more forgiving in shot placement. If you’re slightly off, the heavier pellet will cause enough damage to still be effective.
They also tend to be more stable at higher speeds, similar to slugs if you want a flatter trajectory.
They also tend to be more stable at higher speeds, similar to slugs if you want a flatter trajectory.
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Hades seem to have better terminal performance from my testing. They seem to tumble more and wrecks the nutters as supposed to poking a hole with normal doomed pellets.
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While I myself enjoy having velocity upwards of 880-920 fps with pellets, some/most guns won't be able to push those 34 grains to that level without mods and or come that way factory.
I'm actually planning a build to start going heavy/slow approach. Reason why? When I hit a squirrel at 30-50 yards with a 45-50 fpe rifle, it plows right through and they tend to run if not a perfect head shot.
I'm going for 30-35, grain pellets moving in the 600 fpe range this round. I want that pellet to hit and dump all its energy into the game. Seems they just drop DRT even with a vital hit. Plus it helps to lower the chance of over penetration, also brings the sound levels down significantly. You can also have a shorter barrel and make a smaller rig.
I'm actually planning a build to start going heavy/slow approach. Reason why? When I hit a squirrel at 30-50 yards with a 45-50 fpe rifle, it plows right through and they tend to run if not a perfect head shot.
I'm going for 30-35, grain pellets moving in the 600 fpe range this round. I want that pellet to hit and dump all its energy into the game. Seems they just drop DRT even with a vital hit. Plus it helps to lower the chance of over penetration, also brings the sound levels down significantly. You can also have a shorter barrel and make a smaller rig.
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I use JSB's, 33.95 for squirrels in .25. My reason? One gun for squirrels, rabbits, racoons. Zeroed in and ready. 907 FPS, Not much on the exit side of the squirrel head shots, rabbits too. Dropped four racoons in 15 minutes one night this past summer. I know people say shot placement, but not every shot will be perfect so I don't mind the overkill of a 25 on squirrels.
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The only difference between the two pellets mentioned, in my opinion, would be effective range.
If you are going out past 50 yards, the Hades get sketchy for me.
If you are going out past 50 yards, the Hades get sketchy for me.
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Exact same for me. I definitely can’t shoot many squirrels past 50 in the fall woods where I live but had to try 33.95’s because they shot very well out of my RTI with the same tune I use for slugs. I was shooting them 915fps. There was just no eye opening shocking difference. The shocking difference comes after 50 yards with accuracy and how easy it is to dial in a 33.95.
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I run the king heavies at 600fps on the greys. I find they kill about the same as the h&n FTT 20 gr. Pop , flop , dead. I prefer a heavy pellet though for the energy retention. But all my shots are under 50yd for what that’s worth.
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I've killed 20 squirrels so far with my two 25s. Only 2 with my 25 Avenger using FX 25.4s. 18 with my P35 using H&N FTT - they weigh 20 grains. The only two that ran more than a few steps where hit in the front of the chest and the pellet stopped under the skin behind a rear leg. The furthest they ran was about 15 feet. They were 2 of the 3 that did not exit. The other one was a double front shoulder hit and the pellet was under the skin on the off side.
So I think 33.95s aren't necessary but I'm sure they will work fine. I might switch my P35-25 to them. It shoots them well but also shoots the FTTs well. I dialed the reg down for the FTTs, probably turn it up if I switch to "heavies". I've also had good success with my one 177 and one of my two 22s. The new 22 caliber will work fine, I'm sure, but the squirrels seem to be avoiding me at the moment. It is now it's turn. I don't think we need expansion, even in 177 and especially in 25. We just need to put the pellet in the kill zone. I've had good results with my 25s even when the shot was not ideal. Like a squirrel hit too far forward on the head - about at the jaw joint - which died instantly. The skull was crushed. A little additional margin and sufficient margin for longer shots isn't a bad thing but you will also need to be sure that the pellet doesn't impact something it shouldn't after it goes through the target.
So I think 33.95s aren't necessary but I'm sure they will work fine. I might switch my P35-25 to them. It shoots them well but also shoots the FTTs well. I dialed the reg down for the FTTs, probably turn it up if I switch to "heavies". I've also had good success with my one 177 and one of my two 22s. The new 22 caliber will work fine, I'm sure, but the squirrels seem to be avoiding me at the moment. It is now it's turn. I don't think we need expansion, even in 177 and especially in 25. We just need to put the pellet in the kill zone. I've had good results with my 25s even when the shot was not ideal. Like a squirrel hit too far forward on the head - about at the jaw joint - which died instantly. The skull was crushed. A little additional margin and sufficient margin for longer shots isn't a bad thing but you will also need to be sure that the pellet doesn't impact something it shouldn't after it goes through the target.
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I would wholeheartedly agree with the part about pellets. I have had very few walkoffs and every single one of those with pellets...mostly .22 18 grain diabolo. It is one reason I switched completely to slugs in the .22 Maverick. I am "only" at 55 fpe, which is nowhere near any .22 lr energy levels. My preferred shot on squirrels now is a double shoulder with either the Zan 25.5 or the JSB Knockouts. I have not had a single walkoff and pretty much a 100% drt after a few seconds of twitching. Both of those slugs open up so much more than any pellet, including a Hades could ever think about. I know slugs are not for everyone, but they are a game changer for clean fast kills.
It does bring me to my one missing puzzle piece, which is the brinell hardness levels for all of the projectiles we use. I have not been able to find anyone who has published that info for us to make good informed choices. I think that is a very big part of picking the right projectiles for your intended hunting or pesting inside of the Hades zone (75ish yards since we all know those things are unpredictable in most airguns past that)
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If I'm hunting somewhere where the shots are under 50 yards, then I like the Heavies for one big reason. They almost always knock them out of the tree! One of the most annoying problems I've had since I started air gun hunting more is squirrels slumping in place and getting stuck in the tree. Sure, most of the time I can throw a couple more rounds into them and get them loose, but I'm not a big fan of turning them into lead hamburger.
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You can test lead hardness with a box of drawing pencils.
Checking Lead Hardness With Drawing Pencils
I thought that this information would be interesting to a lot of you readers. A month or so ago I
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I am always amazed that people want to use a howitzer to kill a squirrel. The Brits are using sub 12-foot lb. to harvest squirrels very successfully. I have taken raccoon and fox with .22 18gr pellets in my Avenger. It's all head shot placement.
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in .25 it dont matter if your in the 900fps range anything hits them like a freight train lol .. ive blown them off fence posts with standard round nose and they do about 5 endo's and land about 30 feet back lol ... there aint no walkin away from that ..
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At what distances? Does the pellet drop quicker and faster than say 20ft lb?Of course they will work
Been harvesting Greys for over 50 years now with 12 fpe or less airguns.
Placement trumps power every day of the week !!
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Well, what do you consider good success? I got a few questions!
- Are you taking headshots or bodyshots?
- Can you keep nickel sized groups at 25 yards from the bench?
- What velocity are you shooting the Hades at?
- Are you getting full passthroughs with the Hades?
There are some basic ballistic knowledge that can help answer this question for you. Terminal performance in airguns are primarily dictated by two parameters:
- Penetration depth: If your projectile doesn't make it this deep, it's not gonna effectively kill the game.
- Wound channel diameter. The larger the diameter, the greater chance you have on damaging organs, vessels and increasing blood loss.
As a general rule, a heavier projectile will deliver deeper penetration, even if the velocity is lower. This is due to momentum. If you are already getting full passthroughs with Hades, a heavier pellet will deliver no gains in terminal performance. If you are pushing the Hades around 900fps, you have sufficient velocity to cause the pellet head to expand. This will increase the permanent wound cavity diameter to greater than the projectile diameter, thus increasing terminal performance if the penetration depth is enough to reach the vitals. A greater permanent wound channel also increases the likelihood that you will hit vitals, so you get better odds, if by chance your shot is slightly off. With that said, if you are slightly off target on the vitals, you will get less terminal performance with a the King Heavies since they don't expand.
I know I have referred to my Ballistics Gel Testing video several dozen times in the past, but I wanted to point out something different to help answer your question. I have started this video at the beginning of what I think is most important for you, but you are free to watch the video from the beginning for my take on ammo knockdown power. Notice how the 110gr slug zips right through the entire length of the 16" Ballistics Gel, but it has a permanent wound channel that is less than the 81gr Polymag Pellet. If the game in question vitals could be reached with in the distance the Polymags reached, it could potentially have greater terminal performance because it makes a bigger hole. In this video, you also see an example of heavier ammo having deeper penetration with the NSA 110gr and 79gr slugs. Again, if you are already getting full passthroughs with the Hades, you get no benefit from moving to the Heavies.
The only reason I believe you should use the Heavy Kings over the Hades, are if the Heavies are much more accurate out of your airgun. You've heard it from others, and I will repeat: Shot placement trumps all. Full Stop.
I hope this helps.
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