How relevant are these moisture filters

[kabalax]

Hi guys,

I currently have a Hill Compressor (EC-3000) and plan to maybe get a Huben Hand Pump (rated up to 350 bars) to fill my Huben GK1 Pistol.

I want to make sure that moisture doesn't build up inside the gun; is this inline filter good enough for the electric compressor AND for the hand pump as well?

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005712855036.html

Thanks for sharing your opinions on these. Since they're relatively unexpensive I might get two of them (one of the EC-3000 and one for the hand pump).

 

[beerthief]

ok , i would go with something a bit better in filtering . hand pumping through a filter means you have to fill the filter also ,your pumping the filters volume also on a pistol you might be dubbling the fill .

 

[Sergey1972]

Hi guys,

I currently have a Hill Compressor (EC-3000) and plan to maybe get a Huben Hand Pump (rated up to 350 bars) to fill my Huben GK1 Pistol.

I want to make sure that moisture doesn't build up inside the gun; is this inline filter good enough for the electric compressor AND for the hand pump as well?

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005712855036.html

Thanks for sharing your opinions on these. Since they're relatively unexpensive I might get two of them (one of the EC-3000 and one for the hand pump).

Too big for hand pump. Price point scares me. Keep in mind when pressurized its bomb. If the wall thickness or material grade is too weak. Get Tuxing or some other brand that people have experience with. Filter size should be proportional to what you are filling. For guns a small one should work. Ec3000 is pretty good at separating water for filling guns already, unless you are in a very humid area.

 

[kabalax]

Thank you guys. What do you recommend to complement the huben hand pump in particular ?

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

These guys are right about that volume. You'd be wore out before the gun's fill check valve opened!

Hand pumping, I would just put two of the small cotton filter housings inline of each other. To keep it fresh and dry, remove the white cotton inserts out to dry at the end on the day, leaving the housings and lines open to the atmosphere too. The lines collect water droplets that will evaporate this way. The filter closest to the pump will be the one catching most of the moisture, and the second one is just for preventative measures. Then just put the dried filters back in their housings before pumping in next day's shooting session.

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

These black Yong Heng filters are about as small and heavy duty as you could get. Plus they come with everything that need to filter, hook up, and seal.

Oil-water Separator Pump Filter High Pressure For YONG HENG 30MPa Air Compressor | eBay

If you have selected your goods, you will get high quality goods just as what you see in pictures. Each good is manually tested after it has been processed and produced. Maximum pressure: 30 (MPA). We will much appreciate it and try to improve our service.

www.ebay.com

 

[Avok]

I

Hi guys,

I currently have a Hill Compressor (EC-3000) and plan to maybe get a Huben Hand Pump (rated up to 350 bars) to fill my Huben GK1 Pistol.

I want to make sure that moisture doesn't build up inside the gun; is this inline filter good enough for the electric compressor AND for the hand pump as well?

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005712855036.html

Thanks for sharing your opinions on these. Since they're relatively unexpensive I might get two of them (one of the EC-3000 and one for the hand pump).

I have this pump, but I am having difficulties with attaching any kind of filter to it. I am relatively new and this crazy variety of working pressures, hoses, adapters, threads, sizes and seals makes me crazy! It seems like nothing is made to work with anything else!

The pump has this filling whip hose with the end you can see on the picture. It only has the Huben probe that you can screw on. I found a video where Gregor is talking about adding a quick disconnect so to make it compatible with more air guns, but there are no details (of course) to what he uses:

 

[bchannell]

My feeling is, that I'm too old to hand pump and I don't like taking the time either. Compressors are cheap and reliable. But, you need to use a good filter and equally important is to keep the filter lower than the gun when filling. That will keep any moisture that is in the line, and you'd be amazed at how much is actually in there, at the low point and not get to the gun, simply by gravity. Also, and this is a biggie, open up your compressor fill lines and pressure gauge block every once in a while to see how much rust and crud is in there and clean it out. If you do this, then you'll be fine. I would also recommend opening your guns up once or twice a year to check for ingress of moisture. If you keep moisture beads in your filter and have cotton filters before the gun, keep the fill line below the gun etc, it's unlikely you'll have any moisture get to the gun, but it's a good idea to see for sure every so often.
I recommend to new shooters, that if they're not willing to do their due dilligence with the rifles, they have two choices, stick with springers, or buy air at a dive shop. It's not worth risking a bottle fracture. I've not heard of one anywhere near me, (there are not a lot of pcp guns here), but I have seen the remnants of two or three online, and they were from moisture, it's not pleasant.

 

[Avok]

Many thanks @bchannell !

Can you think of any details of how I can connect a filter to this particular pump? Huben PCP (350 PSI). You see how the connector looks on the picture. And the filter with all parts, needs to be able to handle the 350 PSI pressure.

 

[Avok]

I actually got a reply from Gregor. He said that the pump doesn't need any water filters. The pressurized components of the pump and the GK1 are all titanium and aluminum. So a bit more moist air is not a problem. Liquid cannot accumulate that much, its just a few drops per pump session that get out when you bleed it.

 

[AlanMcD]

I agree that a good hand pump - when used correctly - does not need any water filters. That said, if I were to add one I would put it on the input side like Hill does, as adding it on the output side increases the amount of pumping you have to do - you have to pressurize the volume of the filter if on the output side, and that works against you using the pump properly.

Highly compressed air can't hold much water vapor at room temperature and below, but it holds more if the temperature is higher - and compressing air heats it up a lot. Then when it cools down, that vapor will condense in liquid. This is how most guns get water in them - we don't pump liquid water into our guns, but we do pump in vapor that later condenses into liquid water. You can read more on this in the following thread, where I explain water filtration for power pumps (the basics still apply): https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/compressor-filters-do-they-really-work.1297949/#post-1578086

The key to using handpumps properly, both for their longevity and to keep water out of our guns is simple: they have to be kept cool. They are made with a base that is a good sized block of metal that acts as a heat sink to cool down the air charge as we pump. If we pump at a steady rate, taking a second or two on both the upstroke and the downstroke, and then pause for a few seconds after the downstroke, the air we just compressed gets a chance to cool down in the base before moving into the hose, and that lets the water vapor condense out to liquid and stay in the base. But after pumping for a while, the base will heat up and we lose this benefit. So here is the key - stop pumping after no more than ~50 strokes, vent the line, and let the pump cool for 10 to 15 minutes before resuming pumping. The venting is key because it blows out the liquid water and also helps cool the pump down too.

This is the reason that, back when I used to use a hand pump, during extended shooting sessions I would always recharge my gun after I hit the limit of shots that I could refill in the ~50 pump limit. That way I did not have to wait on the pump cooling - it would cool while I was back shooting. Filling a gun from zero the first time takes a long time with all the breaks we need to take, but once full it is not that bad. Of course, when filling from zero we can take more strokes initially as the pump does not get that hot until it starts to build pressure some, but once the pressure is up a few hundred psi then it is time to start the cool down process.

 

[Avok]

Y

I agree that a good hand pump - when used correctly - does not need any water filters. That said, if I were to add one I would put it on the input side like Hill does, as adding it on the output side increases the amount of pumping you have to do - you have to pressurize the volume of the filter if on the output side, and that works against you using the pump properly.

Highly compressed air can't hold much water vapor at room temperature and below, but it holds more if the temperature is higher - and compressing air heats it up a lot. Then when it cools down, that vapor will condense in liquid. This is how most guns get water in them - we don't pump liquid water into our guns, but we do pump in vapor that later condenses into liquid water. You can read more on this in the following thread, where I explain water filtration for power pumps (the basics still apply): https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/compressor-filters-do-they-really-work.1297949/#post-1578086

The key to using handpumps properly, both for their longevity and to keep water out of our guns is simple: they have to be kept cool. They are made with a base that is a good sized block of metal that acts as a heat sink to cool down the air charge as we pump. If we pump at a steady rate, taking a second or two on both the upstroke and the downstroke, and then pause for a few seconds after the downstroke, the air we just compressed gets a chance to cool down in the base before moving into the hose, and that lets the water vapor condense out to liquid and stay in the base. But after pumping for a while, the base will heat up and we lose this benefit. So here is the key - stop pumping after no more than ~50 strokes, vent the line, and let the pump cool for 10 to 15 minutes before resuming pumping. The venting is key because it blows out the liquid water and also helps cool the pump down too.

This is the reason that, back when I used to use a hand pump, during extended shooting sessions I would always recharge my gun after I hit the limit of shots that I could refill in the ~50 pump limit. That way I did not have to wait on the pump cooling - it would cool while I was back shooting. Filling a gun from zero the first time takes a long time with all the breaks we need to take, but once full it is not that bad. Of course, when filling from zero we can take more strokes initially as the pump does not get that hot until it starts to build pressure some, but once the pressure is up a few hundred psi then it is time to start the cool down process.

Yes, what you say makes sense. Gregor also suggested running the whip through cold water or using a fan. If practical. But for what I plan to do, just top off the gun to higher pressure, it would take me probably no more than 20-30 pumps. He said topping it off from low to max is 70 pumps. The pistol has a small tank and I want to charge it from 315 to 350. It doesn't seem like this pump, with its massive heat sink, will heat up a lot. But I will keep your advice in mind and check how it behaves. Its also much dependent on the weather of course.

 

[kabalax]

Yeah that's basically what I'm doing as well with my Huben Hand Pump and my GK1 : Gun higher than the pump + not pumping too fast to give it a chance to cool. When I have to top my GK1 (typically after dumping a mag) I pump around 50 times.

 

[anirudh]

I agree that a good hand pump - when used correctly - does not need any water filters. That said, if I were to add one I would put it on the input side like Hill does, as adding it on the output side increases the amount of pumping you have to do - you have to pressurize the volume of the filter if on the output side, and that works against you using the pump properly.

Highly compressed air can't hold much water vapor at room temperature and below, but it holds more if the temperature is higher - and compressing air heats it up a lot. Then when it cools down, that vapor will condense in liquid. This is how most guns get water in them - we don't pump liquid water into our guns, but we do pump in vapor that later condenses into liquid water. You can read more on this in the following thread, where I explain water filtration for power pumps (the basics still apply): https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/compressor-filters-do-they-really-work.1297949/#post-1578086

The key to using handpumps properly, both for their longevity and to keep water out of our guns is simple: they have to be kept cool. They are made with a base that is a good sized block of metal that acts as a heat sink to cool down the air charge as we pump. If we pump at a steady rate, taking a second or two on both the upstroke and the downstroke, and then pause for a few seconds after the downstroke, the air we just compressed gets a chance to cool down in the base before moving into the hose, and that lets the water vapor condense out to liquid and stay in the base. But after pumping for a while, the base will heat up and we lose this benefit. So here is the key - stop pumping after no more than ~50 strokes, vent the line, and let the pump cool for 10 to 15 minutes before resuming pumping. The venting is key because it blows out the liquid water and also helps cool the pump down too.

This is the reason that, back when I used to use a hand pump, during extended shooting sessions I would always recharge my gun after I hit the limit of shots that I could refill in the ~50 pump limit. That way I did not have to wait on the pump cooling - it would cool while I was back shooting. Filling a gun from zero the first time takes a long time with all the breaks we need to take, but once full it is not that bad. Of course, when filling from zero we can take more strokes initially as the pump does not get that hot until it starts to build pressure some, but once the pressure is up a few hundred psi then it is time to start the cool down process.

Alan..read your comments..i use a Hills Mk 3 to pump up my daystate huntsman...the method of venting air out after 50 strokes and then repumping...is this effective?i can strip and assemble my pcp myself with no problems but then how does one come to know ones pcp has moisture built up inside.i frankly pump up my pcp from abt 150 bars to 220 bars for each refill but stop in between to catch my breath.is this a correct method.of course the pump requires rebuild because moisture (white stuff) does build up on its base even with that fancy dessicant filter it has.

 

[AlanMcD]

Alan..read your comments..i use a Hills Mk 3 to pump up my daystate huntsman...the method of venting air out after 50 strokes and then repumping...is this effective?i can strip and assemble my pcp myself with no problems but then how does one come to know ones pcp has moisture built up inside.i frankly pump up my pcp from abt 150 bars to 220 bars for each refill but stop in between to catch my breath.is this a correct method.of course the pump requires rebuild because moisture (white stuff) does build up on its base even with that fancy dessicant filter it has.

I think you should be doing fine with that approach. I used a Hill Mk2 (with input desiccant) for a few years exclusively on a Marauder as the only fill source, and when I tore it down for some changes after that time there was no signs of any moisture at all. After that point I bought a tank and had it filled at a dive shop, but still pumped a lot - the tank was more to support my constant changes to to the gun, which often meant degassing - which is not so fun with a hand pump. Eventually I bought a Shoebox compressor about 10 years ago, and that was when I really went down the rabbit hole of reviewing all my old thermo / heat transfer stuff to fully understand what was going on with the water vapor stuff to be sure I had it right . . . .

Bottom line; about 50 strokes with a hand pump followed by venting and a cool down break works great for water vapor and hand pumping. Just down't pump too fast, and pause for a second or two at the bottom of each stroke - this gives the air charge a moment to cool in the base.