How realistic is a 1" group at 100 yards?

[13brv3]

Greetings,

I have a .22 Impact, and the thing is just a drill bit at 50 yards. Groups of 3/8"-1/2" are pretty easily doable, even for me. The problem is when I try to shoot at 100 yards. The best groups I can get are in the 1-3/4"-2" range, and nothing I've tried so far can improve that. I've mostly be using JSB Exact Match pellets, and have tried all the weights available. I've found that 18.1 is probably the best, but not by a huge amount. I've tried various power settings, and have settled on the typical 880-900 fps range. Cleaning the barrel does prove to be important. Sadly, none of this gets me close to my 1" goal.

One thing I've resisted is sorting pellets, but I guess that's going to have to be next. Yesterday I used my powder scale to weigh about 50 "18.1" gr pellets, and they ranged from 17.85 to 18.45 gr. I saved them in groups of weight, so next time out I can use all similar weights in a group. I also saved a batch that were the highest and lowest weights, just to see if that indeed makes it worse. Of course when researching "sorting", I found that not only weight, but head and skirt size matters, and I haven't made any attempt to sort that way.

I guess my question is whether 1" groups at 100 yards is a realistic goal for my .22 Impact? Should it be possible with unsorted, but high quality pellets, or will they need to be hand picked? Would I have better luck with .25 or maybe .30 cal?

Thanks,
Rusty

 

[ackuric]

.25/.30 cal pellets have a higher BC which generally means yes they can and will perform better at longer ranges. Not a lot of guys accomplish moa or sub moa groups in .22 cal at 100 yards, so if you do consider yourself one of the few!

You are on the right track though to obtain the best results by sorting/weighing pellets, as any variation when going 100 yards is really going to show on paper.

-Matt

 

[MoeHofer]

I have a .22 cricket that I consider to be "extremely accurate". I have a picture of 3 5 shot groups at 50 yards in a row at 3/16". I have done 5 groups in a row at 14 shots all right at 1/2".

however at 100 yards my 14 Shot groups are always at least 1.5 inches or greater. I have tried many different techniques and cannot shrink them.
however 14 shots at 1.5 to 2 inches to me is really not bad. 
I guess it's never quite good enough lol! 

 

[13brv3]

Thanks for the great comments. Somehow I had also missed one of Ted's videos when he first made a 100 yard sub MOA group on camera. After watching that, I can see that it's not going to be easy, particularly for my lower skill set I have no actual need to do this, other than the challenge of it. I don't plan to shoot any competition, or hunt, so it's just for fun. 

Cheers,
Rusty

 

[TonyT]

At 100 yards you have to be a good judge of the wind,s impact on your pellet.

 

[Alan]

My .22 Marauder (18 grainers, at 925 fps) will shoot one inch groups at 100 yards at the indoor range. Outdoors with any wind at all, they open up to about double, and sometimes 6 inch groups if there are gusts. As Tony mentioned, bigger is better at least within reason.

 

[13brv3]

Any serious attempt has been made with as close to zero wind as possible. I'm shooting on my own property, which is in the woods, and I have a streamer at the target location so I can see if there's wind on that end, but I can't say what might be happening between where I'm at and the target. 

Thanks,
Rusty

 

[Dairyboy]

Definitely no small feat. But if it's just for fun then whose stopping you in trying! One guy got a subMOA group at 100yds with a AA S400 in .177. It's doable when everything aligns but the slightest difference in wind at 100 can easily kill your group. With any caliber pellet in all honesty. Even a .30 JSB shooting at 890fps with a .042 BC at 100yds with a 1MPH breeze at 90° will throw the pellet off 1.1" in drift. 

 

[Percula]

"13brv3"Greetings,

I have a .22 Impact, and the thing is just a drill bit at 50 yards. Groups of 3/8"-1/2" are pretty easily doable, even for me.

You are saying your gun is capable of shooting 1" groups at 100y... A 1/2" group at 50y is shooting at 1 MOA, and 1 MOA at 100y is 1".

Your problem is not the gun, its everything else. Most likely the wind, and using those light weight pellets isn't going to help. If you were to test indoors without wind you would likely see those 1" groups or smaller. It doesn't take much wind to push a pellet around and the further your POI is the more variance you are going to see. Take the time to get a ballistics calculator and play with the numbers. You might be surprised how much a 90° cross wind of as little as 5mph will effect your POI at 100y. 

Something to think about too, in direct relation to your primary question of "how realistic is a 1" group at 100y?", that most people don't understand shooting groups, the how or the why. If you are adjusting your POA to achieve the smallest group of X number of shoots, you aren't shooting a group. A group is going to tell you, under the conditions that exist at that moment how accurate your shoots will be, aka give you a cone of certainty. So if you're shooting a (10) shot group and you get one gust of wind your group is going to be larger than if the wind was consistent. Honestly testing for groups in any conditions outside in the wind is not going to tell you anything about future performance. If you need to test then you need to do it in consistent conditions, aka indoors.

 

[Ranger08]

It also depends how many shots you take. 5 shots for MOA is a lot more likely than 10 or more. It is very hard to get consistent conditions over a 10 shot string. As others have said even the slightest breeze while shooting will throw almost any caliber pellet off by some amount. Still...it can be done under good circumstances, The fun is in the trying.

 

[MarkUK]

SHOT AT DAWN!

To avoid variations in wind direction and thermal variations in density along the trajectory, check the weather forecast for wind speed and set your alarm clock early, when you want to do your next test.

 

[Alan]

Getting up early might work at your home location, but it isn't a given here in Roswell, NM. This morning, the anemometer was Ø at 3 am. At 3:15 am, it was over 8 average, with gusts to 15. 

 

[13brv3]

I can definitely appreciate the effects of wind, because I've seen how bad it can be compared to dead calm. An indoor 100 yd range would be nice, but not something I've ever seen, and if it were a range used for powder burners, there would likely still be wind due to the ventilation system. Outside right now the wind is 0 gusting to maybe 0.1mph, and that's probably coming from the mosquitoes Most of my shooting is done in the very late afternoon after the wind lays down, and it's the best conditions I have available. 

I did just find out that the .22 Monster 25.4 gr pellets I tested were the old style, not the new style people are talking about, so I ordered some of the new ones to try. They're heavier, and are supposed to have a BC that approaches the larger .25 cal pellets, so it's worth a try. They're backordered, so I'm not sure when I'll get to try them. 

Another thing I've been meaning to test is the shroud. I've often wondered how much effect the telescoping shroud has on accuracy. I have to believe there's some POI shift, and that wouldn't be a problem as long as it's consistent. I also assume a telescoping shroud will likely be worse than a fixed shroud. It would be interesting to compare extended vs collapsed vs removed shroud conditions next time I go out.

Rusty

 

[jps2486]

I do it with regularity with my RAW .30 cal, but if the wind picks up, then it's a lot harder. Follow through is very important here as well.

 

[jorgemac]

With my Vulcan Tactic .25 have done 1" at 100 yards but only few times, 1.5" is more frequent , that I do not consider it a bad group in any case.
1" group 100y regularity its very difficult with .22 caliber. I suggest switch to .25 if you want long distance shots.

 

[13brv3]

Thanks for all the comments. In retrospect, I probably should have ordered the Impact in .25 originally, but since my powder burners are .22 and .30 cal, that was my plan here as well. I was going to start with .22 then buy a .30 barrel later. Of course now we know that the smooth twist-X barrels are compatible with the Impact, so at some point I'll get one of those, in either .25 or .30. 

In the mean time, I'll continue tinkering with the .22 barrel using other pellets, and with various shroud configurations. The combination of available time and near perfect conditions is rare enough that it will probably take weeks ( or months) to get through the tests. No hurry though.

Cheers,
Rusty

 

[Nutcracker]

Wind has never been good to me when I am shooting groups. There can be the slightest breeze & my groups open up, even at 40-50 yards. I tried some hundred yard shots the other day with my .25 and the best I could get was 1.75 w/ the slightest breeze. 5/8" at 50. When there is no breeze, I have been getting 3/8" at 50. I live in the hills/ valley, seems sometimes my pellet not only moves left to right but high & low. The wind here swirls. I think a 1" group at 100 yards with a .22 would be very hard, maybe with a .25 or better yet a 30. But trying is a lot of gun. 

 

[Drumsnguns]

Totally realistic and doable, just not everytime
You’ll need an accurate gun, the right wind conditions, the right caliber, a steady hand and the right sorted/weighed pellets. I recently came within a whisker of a one inch group with unsorted pellets off a bag with my Impact .25 using JSB Heavy MKII. The big win, though, is having fun getting there. 

 

[13brv3]

That does seem to be the consensus. It's possible, but just barely with a .22. I did some tests with the shroud extended, collapsed, and removed (really loud), and maybe there's a slight improvement with the shroud collapsed. Of course the .25 and .30 have fixed shrouds, so maybe another negative for the .22 version. I also tested my weight sorted pellets, and honestly can't say I saw any improvement, so I'll have to consider sorting by size as well. I also chronoed some different pellets, and will give them a try on the next opportunity.

Eventually I'll probably try to buy a Crown barrel assembly in .25 cal, but who knows when they'll be available. In the mean time, pursuing 1" in .22 will be a fun challenge. Wed I had a 6 shot group that was 1.25", and 5 of those were 3/4" measured center to center. The "standard" is 10 shots, but I typically shoot 6 since the mag holds 18, and it gives me 3 chances. If I ever get more consistent results, I'll move up to 10 shot groups.

Thanks again for all the comments. I'm really enjoying the Impact, and am starting to prefer it over any of the powder burners. Since I only shoot paper, and don't have a longer distance range, the clean quiet Impact is really relaxing to shoot. 

Thanks,
Rusty

 

[Keyman62421]

I think we get tunnel vision on perfection. I usually take a 4x6 card and put a dot in the middle w/sharpie.
​I sit back @ 50yds. and hit the dot or on the edge of the dot (according to my coffee jitters) and then i'll miss.
​I get so @#$% mad that I just want to quit. then I go look @ the target and I'm less than a 1/4" off. Keep it in perspective and understand that @ 100yds. that 1 inch will kill a rodent. as long as its centered on the target!.
​we all get wrapped up in the accuracy and forget the practicality.
​Good shooting is a habit and a little off is plenty good on most hunting. Now if you're BR or HFT. , well, aim small!