how long can it stay pumped? Hatsan Model 95 Vortex

[sololucky]

 I have a Hatsan model 95 Vortex. I have recently began having "issues" with the local squirrels (long story).

So since I now work from home I have began shooting and trapping them.

My normal procedure is I cock/pump the rifle, go outside for a few minutes and if one comes close enough I shoot it (or at it). If nothing shows up I leave it loaded and lean it against the wall and will go back out in an hour or so.

My question is how long is it "okay" to leave the gun ready to fire ?

On a safety note, I live alone so no chance of anyone but me getting ahold of the loaded rifle.

 

[KevininPa]

I always read that you can't leave a springer cocked because the springs will take a set. Gas rams can be left cocked longer. You're probably good for awhile, but I wouldn't let it sit for days. I had the Hatsan 135 for awhile. Used to let it set for a few hours, same reason. But I would fire off the shot if nothing turned up. Have a heavy duty pellet/bullet trap out back. Got rid of that airgun. Loved everything about it except the weight. Gave it to my stepson. Actually planning on getting a 95 eventually. They're a lot lighter according to the websites. Do you like yours?

 

[sololucky]

Thanks for your opinion ...and that's pretty much what i do...is not go more than 3-4 hours, fire it away, then if needed, reload it.



I do like the 95 Vortex...it is a heavy rifle...maybe not as heavy as the 135 though.

It will shoot accurately out to 50 yds with a pattern of about a quarter and plugged a squirrel last week at, i'd guess, 70 yards or so.

For the price I would recommend it. I researched A LOT and nobody ever said anything notably bad about the 95 Vortex (or any Hatsan for that matter)...so i bought it

I am kinda new to airgunning so dropping almost a grand for a PCP then have to get a compressor wasn't in the cards for me.

 

[Odoyle]

Not very safe to do that either.

 

[oledawg]

If it stays pumped up more than 4 hours, call your Doctor. 

 

[Odoyle]

Or switch partners... (add additional)

 

[c_m_shooter]

You can leave it cocked and loaded pretty much indefinately. Tom Gaylord tested this years ago leaving a springer cocked for months with no difference in velocity. The lifespan of springs is measured in X number of cycles of compression and release. When you compress it, it is only 1/2 of a cycle.

 

[MikeVV]

Coil springs WILL NOT...take a "set" or weaken if left compressed..!

As an (retired) Aerospace Engineer, I've done and seen tests that will attest to this fact. Also, as a drag racer, I (we) take valve springs VERY seriously. Again, no compressed springs will NOT be harmed if left for long periods.

Another proof. Many years ago, I bought a an original Belgium, holster for my Browning Hi Power (9mm). As I looked at it at the shop, I found that it had an original Belgium magazine in the magazine pouch. Interesting enough, the magazine was FULL of "WWII Belgium" ammo. When I got home, I pulled the ammo out and took the follower spring out for inspection. It was compressed for so long that the inside of the magazine was stained by the steel spring. I took a fairly new magazine apart. The free length...was the same, the "felt pressure felt "very" close, if not the same. And wonder of wonders, the magazine worked...just fine. THIS IS A WWII LOAD..!

I don't know about the sear and other mechanicals within the gun, but...the "spring" will come to no harm being compressed for long (years) periods of time.

What harms springs..."HEAT", that harms springs Both and either internal heat and external heat. Internal heat comes from fast cycling. Like in a race engine over about 6000rpm. You get about 6 months of every weekend racing before needing to replace the springs. If you up the rpm to 9000rpm, you'll get two to three runs before they need replacing..!

Not to worry.

Mike

P.s. - I'd assume that years of use in a gun will destroy the springs integrity. Warpage and a loss of pressure. Notice that I said...years" of use. Again, cycling, not being stationary in any specific position.

 

[Septicdeath]

A Springer will lose power but it will take a long time. Tom Gaylord tested this years ago.

A Rammer should be fine indefinitely unless your piston seals are bad to begin with.

I never leave mine cocked longer than a hunting trip. But the gun is always shot during the trip several times at critters. Cock and load when you get up in the morning and shoot it before you go to bed. It will be fine.

The worst thing you can do to a Springer or Rammer is sit them in the closet, safe etc... and not use them. It will do more harm to them than leaving them cocked for a day.

Aim small shoot small sololucky

 

[GoldenStateAIRGUNer]

That's one reason I've always liked springers without the anti bear trap safety feature. I get the dangers involved with a cocked springer and accidentally pulling the trigger but I've always liked the ability to uncock the rifle if you decide not to shoot. It's another reason to like my FWB 124.

 

[sololucky]

All good info folks...thanks.

The seals were my concern, blow-by, blow out, etc...the gun is a few years old....i shoot it semi regular and more regular these days cutting the squirrel numbers down.

i do enjoy this gun and especially now with ammo being so scarce and expensive.

i have a good supply of ammo but would rather not use it for this when the air rifle will do the trick easily in most cases.

Thanks again and I wish you all an enjoyable Christmas (holiday) season.

 

[JayJay]

It depends on the engineering design and on the manufacturer.

Fatigue is the real issue. Steel has a fatigue loading threshold which is usually about 40% of the tensile strength. As long as you don't exceed that loading, it probably will not damage the material, no matter how long it sits there. If the material is not damaged, then the spring performance should not degrade. 

But the devil is in the details.

Take for example piano wire, which is very highly stressed. Good piano designs keep the static load just under the fatigue limit. Piano wire is carefully manufactured and is highly polished to remove surface stress risers that act as crack starters. That's why steel strings can last 75 years, despite being whacked hundreds of thousands of times by little felt hammers.

Or look at automotive valve springs. They spend their entire life in a compressed state. When you turn off your motor, a bunch of the springs are left almost fully compressed, and are no worse for the wear. During operation, they experience conditions not found in airguns, such as high heat, vibration, and high deflection. Yet automotive valve springs rarely fail, despite millions of compression cycles.

Spring manufacturers use a variety of techniques to protect springs from fatigue cracking.These include surface treatments such as polishing, shot peening and more. I have no idea if the airgun industry spends any effort on spring longevity.

So, if the airgun springer powerplant was well designed, manufactured according to that design, and the overall shot cycle doesn't push the spring loading beyond the fatigue limit, it's probably ok. You should probably not see much drop in the power, regardless of how long a gun is left in the cocked state. 

However, my Weihrauch HW30 and HW95 manuals both say to not leave the guns cocked. They may just be playing it safe, but you never know. 

The good news is that springs are relatively easy to replace. 

 

[crazyhorse]

Solution. Go to Walmart where they sell bird feed. They also sell bags of squirrel food. Buy one ($8.00) Go home and drop a hand full so you have a good clear shot and soon the buggers will show up and you can cock your springer, load and shoot the squeaks. (Time for the engineers to step aside and let the practical guy take over}.