Mark, Just curious what are you using 50 power for? Only thing I could think of is shooting fly's off dog turds at 50 yards. LOL. One thing I know for sure you'll be able to count your heart beats with that one.
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First or Second focal plane for PCP air Rifles and PBs rifles? help!!
- Thread starter Renegade_626
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This is obviously a passionate subject for guys judging by all the responses. Mark, I didn't notice you mention what the primary purpose of the scope will be is it targets or hunting?
I own an Optisan 4-16x44 F1 FFP scope (my only FFP). The reticle is small at 4x but I can at least see the crosshairs, at 16x the crosshairs are fine enough I've been able to easily see and shoot paintballs off of golf tees at 75 yards. I have found for shooting pest birds I enjoy an FFP scope. I like never having to worry about what mag level my scope is on. I constantly adjust my mag to locate the birds in trees and then zoom in enough to be comfortable with my shot placement. Holdover and windage are of course always the same no matter the magnification. I usually dial for elevation and hold for wind. So since the primary purpose of my airguns are for hunting I will stick with FFP and I've been very happy with the Optisan.
However, I do think if the sole purpose of my airgun was for target shooting I probably would choose a SFP scope for the consistent reticle size, reduced price of SFP scopes and greater selection.
It's interesting to hear all of these differing opinions.
I own an Optisan 4-16x44 F1 FFP scope (my only FFP). The reticle is small at 4x but I can at least see the crosshairs, at 16x the crosshairs are fine enough I've been able to easily see and shoot paintballs off of golf tees at 75 yards. I have found for shooting pest birds I enjoy an FFP scope. I like never having to worry about what mag level my scope is on. I constantly adjust my mag to locate the birds in trees and then zoom in enough to be comfortable with my shot placement. Holdover and windage are of course always the same no matter the magnification. I usually dial for elevation and hold for wind. So since the primary purpose of my airguns are for hunting I will stick with FFP and I've been very happy with the Optisan.
However, I do think if the sole purpose of my airgun was for target shooting I probably would choose a SFP scope for the consistent reticle size, reduced price of SFP scopes and greater selection.
It's interesting to hear all of these differing opinions.
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I want a scope that can do it all, to be honest. I will be shooting my RAW long range........out to 200 yards, Hunt with and target shoot. I want something really clear at high magnifications and is versatile to be used even with a PB. I do like the reticle to stay the same size but i want a reticle that is "Fine" even at high magnifications which is why i am set at a Sightron, very fine reticle with illumination also. Illumination is also hard to find on some high end scopes, don't know why more manufactures don't put them on these high dollar scopes.
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@Rengade,
Hawke 10-50 sidewinder ed, target bias, limited elevation range so adjustable rings are a must...
Athlon Midas btr sfp 4.5-27, hunting bias,
Both are SFP, have very good reticles and excellent glass, in my humble opinion, given their prices I would have to give the edge to the Midas for overall versatility, especially on a PB.
Hawke 10-50 sidewinder ed, target bias, limited elevation range so adjustable rings are a must...
Athlon Midas btr sfp 4.5-27, hunting bias,
Both are SFP, have very good reticles and excellent glass, in my humble opinion, given their prices I would have to give the edge to the Midas for overall versatility, especially on a PB.
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Lol, now that's a tall order! I understand the thought, but from my own limited experience and hours, make that days, of research, I believe that compromises are going to have to be made For my own part I had to prioritize my own needs and go from there. I will say that some brand of adjustable scope rings will definitely come into play in order to maximize flexibility.
PS "I believe that compromises are going to have to be made"...or....
I would simply point you at this thread to see how the search for the "One fits All" Scope has gone for at least a few members of the forums...Scope Ho's all...
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scopes-more-scopes/
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Yeah for sure BDX!!, i know that i am looking for a "Unicorn Scope"......LOL. I do agree that you have to prioritize what you are going to use the scope for and start from there.
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I have both FFP and SFP, and I routinely am shooting squirrels at, the last one, 79 yards. And let me tell you, FFP is the way to go. Even squirrels at 50 yards, when hiding among bushes and weeds, FFP is the bomb. The reticle and image are all proportional, so if you want a two inch holdover, you can use the squirrel head as reference and don't need to do any mental conversions.
Not an expert here, but I'm shooting a lot, and about 3-9 squirrels every stinking day. The bluing on my Taipan Vet is wearing off. I think this last year maybe 1500. And most are complex under and over shots, through no climb fence, and sometimes two sets of fence for the hit.
If you wondering, I'm shooting 5 x 25 Athlon, and another brand that slips my mind now, which has lockdown turrets.
Not an expert here, but I'm shooting a lot, and about 3-9 squirrels every stinking day. The bluing on my Taipan Vet is wearing off. I think this last year maybe 1500. And most are complex under and over shots, through no climb fence, and sometimes two sets of fence for the hit.
If you wondering, I'm shooting 5 x 25 Athlon, and another brand that slips my mind now, which has lockdown turrets.
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Yeah i too am shooting with a FFP Athlon Helos in MOA. This rifle is AMAZING for the money, really really good warranty on them. I like these scopes much better than the Hawke's at this 300 - 600 price point. Are you familiar with the higher priced Athlon's like the Cronus? are these still made in China? or are they Japanese glass assembled in China?
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After trying 4 FFP scopes, the Athlon Helos is the only one I did not return. Frankly, if I hadn't let the return period expire I would not have it either. I agree, it's a decent scope for the money, I'm just not a fan of the FFP format. For less money, I much prefer the Sightron S-TAC with MOA reticle. Should I want to range with it, or hold over precisely, I can always put it on 20X and do so. At the distances I take 90% of my shots, I just don't find either necessary. And in the woods, or other poor light conditions, it is a much brighter and clearer scope than the Athlon.
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If you shoot at various ranges with various magnification powers and trajectories of PCPs the FFP works best for my needs. Shooting from 50-130 yards the holdovers just change too much for me. If you shoot at a known yardage all the time then SFP will work just fine but I don't. 10-50 Hawke taught me this lesson the hard way, so after dishing out 1k for glass.
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If I shoot a target and see in my scope I missed by 1 moa (usually the first hash mark or dot on the reticle) I quickly turn the windage knob 4 clicks (1/4 moa each) and I'm instantly on target – regardless of magnification or distance. That's the beauty of FFP.
These excellent images may help.
These excellent images may help.
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Thanks for uploading some of these images Della Dog, they clarify a lot of things in the FFP and SFP scope configurations. There are some good advantages to using FFP when dialing for windage at long distances, as they said it is till accurate from short to large magnifications with minor turret adjustments
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I prefer FFP over the SFP. I have had many scopes and I prefer the ability to account for adjustments without adjusting the mag. I also prefer the larger reticle when I crank it up to 50x.
When using my Golden Eagle at 60x, I can see the dot fine, but I don’t like having to dial back to figure how impact adjustments. With My SB 12-50, I can zoom all the way in and never adjust the mag unless I’m switching targets.
When using my Golden Eagle at 60x, I can see the dot fine, but I don’t like having to dial back to figure how impact adjustments. With My SB 12-50, I can zoom all the way in and never adjust the mag unless I’m switching targets.
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I pretty much have it down in terms of what i like for the PCP air rifles and BP Rifles. anything under 300 yards.....Second Focal Plane and anything over 300 yards First Focal.....this is my prefence and it also depend on the reticle for First Focal Plane Scopes. I love to shoot down to 30 yards and up with ALL my scopes and some FFP you just can't do that with. Its preference guys. You guys all have really good responses and learn a lot from this thread.
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Typically the more dynamic the shooting requirement is while still requiring great precision, and as well the using of holdovers and holdoffs in those situations, a FFP scope will make life easier because the MIL or MOA value of the holds will remain the same on any magnification, which isn't the case for SFP when magnifications except on "the one" are used. Thus why in tactical style comps/PRS and NRL, FFP scopes dominate. The reticle is most used to measure POI to POA to make corrections.
For Benchrest or other paper target sports SFP scopes seem to be used more. In these style comps the scoring rings can be used to measure POI to POA. In FT matches which use steel targets, having higher magnification, does help with ranging distances using the side focus. Most of the time we have developed a sense of how far off to aim in FT and the targets are relatively large so most don't feel the need for FFP.
There's some crossover use of applications, both FFP and SFP can be used for most types of rifle shooting but each one has its downsides or advantages. Often seeing the reticle on low magnification is a downside in FFP unless the reticle is designed to be a thicker one. The best IQ I've seen was in the high end SFP scopes but both of these nice scopes weren't the most versatile scopes around. If hunting on lower magnification is preferred while still wanting higher magnification when needed SFP is desirable because the reticle appears the same size on any magnification.
For Benchrest or other paper target sports SFP scopes seem to be used more. In these style comps the scoring rings can be used to measure POI to POA. In FT matches which use steel targets, having higher magnification, does help with ranging distances using the side focus. Most of the time we have developed a sense of how far off to aim in FT and the targets are relatively large so most don't feel the need for FFP.
There's some crossover use of applications, both FFP and SFP can be used for most types of rifle shooting but each one has its downsides or advantages. Often seeing the reticle on low magnification is a downside in FFP unless the reticle is designed to be a thicker one. The best IQ I've seen was in the high end SFP scopes but both of these nice scopes weren't the most versatile scopes around. If hunting on lower magnification is preferred while still wanting higher magnification when needed SFP is desirable because the reticle appears the same size on any magnification.
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