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Bad Quality Control

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yoopper

yoopper

Member
Nov 27, 2016
137
3
Wisconsin, United States
How many times have you read "No QC, they need more Quality Control", or a similar rant by someone who has received a defective product? Maybe you have said something similar? As a retired quality engineer (ASQ-CQE) with more than 35 years` experience I've heard it many times.

More inspection is not the answer, since it has been proven to only be 85% effective in weeding out the defectives. What is needed is better process design and control, from product design through delivery to the customer. Unfortunately , most companies are more focused on end of the quarter earnings than on satisfying their customers in the long term.

Any of you who have worked in any industry from banking to manufacturing, know that they'll get into trouble with the boss faster for not meeting financial targets than quality goals!

Caveat emptor! (Buyer beware) 
 
No doubt, I agree that inspection isn’t an effective strategy. The saying we have around here is “you can’t inspect quality into a part”. 



However I don’t find fault with the tendency for people to say a manufacturer has poor quality control or that they need better quality control. It’s a convenient (and I think, reasonable) shortcut for all things quality related, whether it’s better processes, better tooling, better testing, better inventory management…you name it. I also think it’s reasonable to include design elements like materials selection, tolerancing, and “overbuilding” for reasonably anticipated user abuse. These are all things that play a role in how the customer perceives a product’s quality.
 
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Certain industries require a ZERO defect mentality. Nuclear Power and Nuclear Weapons to name two. Doesn't mean there won't be defects or mistakes, but the organizational mentality needs to be one of zero defects tolerated.

There are those that say we're just human, and humans always make mistakes. That's true to an extent, but when it really matters to you, how many mistakes do you make? Your paycheck matters, so if the amount is wrong would you only notice it 90% of the time? Do you drive home to the wrong house one day a month? The answer to both is of course not. Why? Because it matters to you...

Do accidents happen? Yes, they do. But Quality is truly an attitude, if people that do the work give a poop, errors will be at an absolute minimum... JMHO-FWIW.
 
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An absolute minimum but they still occur. Chernobyl and 3 Mile Island come to mind. It is certainly disappointing to receive a defective product but it happens with all things. Seems to me the main thing to consider is how the issue is handled by the vendor or manufacturer since we can never hope for zero defects. Also JMHO and it ain't worth much.
 
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I was in manufacturing for 21 years, +1 for Deming. Many satisfied customers spend their time shooting and its the problem guns that get posted on the net. Over the years I have seen problems with most brands of firearms and airguns NIB. So here is my chance to whine. Here are a few example problems I had with more expensive guns across 5 brands. This is not an all-inclusive list and does not include the "cheap" $600 and under guns.

Steyr LG110 (purchased new $3500) The gun shot so low it could not be sighted in without adjustable rings. Accuracy was about 1" at 55 yds with this competition gun. The bubble level fell apart before I could mount it. The reg had issues that required repair. After many hours tuning it would shoot 5 shots under 1/4" at 55 yds in no wind and is the most accurate gun I have had.

FX Monsoon (Purchased new $1500) Gun would not hold air on initial fill. I replaced a bad check valve and was able to fill it. Then the gun would not cock due to insufficient sear engagement, had to adjust the trigger. Synthetic flexible stock- 10 shot groups at 25 yds would vary from 1" to a "bug hole" depending on where the forearm was placed on the front sand bag.

Edgun bullpup (Purchased new $1300) Cocking lug broke in under 100 shots. Part not available so it had to be custom made. Then the gun was very nice.

Evanix Air Speed (Purchased new $1050) Both mags failed in the first 100 shots. Replacement mags never came. I fixed and upgraded the mags and the gun has since functioned flawlessly for over 500 shots.

Ataman M2S FT (Purchased new $2300) Cold temps caused a 200 fps velocity drop (on a gun from Russia LOL). Cleaning the lube out of the reg fixed the temp sensitivity, but I could not get rid of reg creep. A HUMA replacement has the gun shooting lights out now.

QC, what QC? It is poor management, as all problems can be traced back to people problems. I defy you to name one that is not people related. Seems that the industry can let the public sort out their problems. It is even more irritating that often parts and information support are unobtanium. While I am NOT the example for this, I know from my mfg background that RETURNS will get their attention real quick because it hits them in the pocket hard.

Will Piatt
 
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Very very interesting thread and I agree with all that has been said With the technology available I would think most of the manufacturing and design problems could be eliminated.

I personally would rather pay a premium for good stuff but I know lots of people who look for the cheapest possible solution in everything. So the dealers and all are hard pressed to know what to sell. What I do expect is customer support. Replace or repair. I buy from midway mostly and I have returned some stuff no questions ask. So far none of the Airgun stuff has been a problem I deal with one distributor and after spending what I have with them I will expect any QC issues to be fairly handled. 

It works both ways some people just expect too much. We’ve all seen that in restaurants and other places of business. 

Ii’s not easy the gun business is very competitive.
 
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Well I work in a Test Lab, so a lot of Military, Commercial, Telecommunications Products come through our labs prior to being released. Stuff Happens.

As I'm working on a couple new products of my own design, I can honestly say, most people have no idea what it takes to see an idea from Start to Finish. Let alone all the design compromises that have to be addressed throughout the design process. Is it possible to miss something out of the hundreds of decisions that need to be made? you bet. That's rarely the problem. Stuff happens, it how the Manufacture/Dealer network handle those issues. Fumble here and the other 1,000 people that are happy and you'll never hear from them.

Then again, some people are like me, screw up, don't fix it, and never see my cash again, and I won't waste my time on describing to you why I'm not coming back.


 
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How many times have you read "No QC, they need more Quality Control", or a similar rant by someone who has received a defective product? Maybe you have said something similar? As a retired quality engineer (ASQ-CQE) with more than 35 years` experience I've heard it many times.

More inspection is not the answer, since it has been proven to only be 85% effective in weeding out the defectives. What is needed is better process design and control, from product design through delivery to the customer. Unfortunately , most companies are more focused on end of the quarter earnings than on satisfying their customers in the long term.

Any of you who have worked in any industry from banking to manufacturing, know that they'll get into trouble with the boss faster for not meeting financial targets than quality goals!

Caveat emptor! (Buyer beware)
Click to expand...

Exactly ! I am a supervising consultant so I can fully understand what you say.
 
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Well as long as we continue to buy hi end pcp’s. And accept the fact that we should fix what could be sorted out at the factory it will continue to take place. So you can’t blame the manufacture there in business to make money. We are the ones that continue supporting them by purchasing there products. I am sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings but it the truth.

Castbullet
 
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