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Acceptable offhand group size?

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First thing this morning. Hatsan 130QE .30 at 40 yards open sights off hand.
Acceptable? I thought I shot five, but apparently shot six times.

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That damn heat wave finally broke and I got the yard work done so I was finally able to get some shooting in.
The top target is at 50 yards. Shot off hand standing 10 shots with the scope set at 5x. I was able to get 8 hits. Rifle was an HW95 .22 shooting CPHPs.
Bottom target also shot off hand 10 shots with same rifle but at 40 yards.

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Moog said:
That damn heat wave finally broke and I got the yard work done so I was finally able to get some shooting in.
The top target is at 50 yards. Shot off hand standing 10 shots with the scope set at 5x. I was able to get 8 hits. Rifle was an HW95 .22 shooting CPHPs.
Bottom target also shot off hand 10 shots with same rifle but at 40 yards.

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I love shooting my frying pans. I put modeling clay in the other side for something different to shoot at.
 
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So I figured I'd check back in. I've been shooting but the groups looked similar to the 1s I already posted so I just kept practicing and didn't post any pics.

I can tell I'm able to hold on target for longer now. I got done shooting at 50 yards yesterday and walked back to the house. I have a steel hostage silhouette target setup and figured what the heck and took a offhand shot at 68 yards and nailed the bad guy dead center. No pics but it did happen lol. I'll continue to practice and im always following everyone's posts in here so keep it up.

Last group I shot at 50. It's not a whole mag but im starting to get more bullseye hits and it's getting slightly easier now. muscle memory is slowly developing. Also the muscles you use to hold steady are becoming sore so I know I'm building those up.

Hope everyone's enjoying their day!

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alpineboard said:
Pulled back to 50 yards tonight StandingView attachment 383044. 1 5/8" and 1 1/4" 5 shot group sizes. The jsb mrd pellet makes a different hole in paper than slugs.

Try to relax as much as possible, prep for your next shot by relaxing and taking at least 6 full relaxed breaths, rest your rifle on a tripod in between shots, get a sequence that you are comfortable with, and adapt if needed. Work on your body position of hold, at the beginning of learning curve, it will take time to get a good position formed. Always working on your method, and adapt to new styles, as your skill grows. Stay at it, it is hard work, but well worth it once it is obtained.
Am using a new to me at outdoor air rifle, last May, FX Crown GRS, 700mm, 22 cal, Boss trigger installed and set as light as possible., Total gun weight = 12 pounds. and using an older Simmons 20x power scope.
When you gently squeeze the trigger, and release it, pretend that the arm is not loaded and will go click, like dryfiring, this eliminates any and all self induced movement of the arm, before during and after firing. Hold your sight picture for a few seconds after the shot.
All this is simple, but easier said than done.
On the second bull, the first 2 shots were x's, def needed to keep cool and not blow it.

Lastly, from your pictures, you have a lot of potential and talent. What you should be thinking of is a training schedule and develop this talent into a higher level skill set, which sounds like is your goal and desire, Best wishes for you, R
I have more training hints.
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Impressive groups and solid advice! I like it. Also thank you for the kind words. I welcome any training hints so bring it on.
 
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I'm also rotating between 3 rifles. I believe so far the taipan standard .25 is 1st, uragan 2 compact .22 is 2nd, and the evol mini .22 is in a very close 3rd.

This was 2 groups. 1 with the evol on the silhouette and the uragan on the circle gong. Both groups started out bullseyes and then the wind started kicking my butt. It was blowing me around so I'm sure the pellets got influenced also but i didnt care I tried holding dead center on every shot.
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I absolutely have better days than others. Some of the earlier postings were on a day I was shooting well.

My best guess is I usually shoot my groups within 1-2 minutes per group. Still forcing myself to follow through, which is probably the hardest for me currently, along with finding a comfortable grip on the forearm.

This was the start of the uragan 2 group from above. The silhouette was aiming at the target hanger and the 1st shot was also on the hanger... just saying 😆. It started raining on me so that's all i got in today. I'll have to hold steady inside looking at the wall for some reps! Thanks to everyone has given advice and contributed to the thread. Have a nice evening all!
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Example, if you were shooting 80 points Standing and working hard for it with no coat. Using a coat will bring your shooting up to 90 points and be more comfortable with more support, it is still hard work, but it is more enjoyable.
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The best advice I can give for off-hand unsupported shooting is this:
Shoulder the rifle and aim at the target. Close your eyes and lower the rifle.
Without opening your eyes raise the rifle to shoulder again and look through the scope /sights again.
If you are aiming left (for example) move your feet around behind you until you are on target and then repeat the process above.
If the next one you open your eyes and you are on target then bingo.

Holding unnatural body position will always add a big slice to inaccurate off hand shooting.

After a lot of practice you will find that hitting the right body position first time becomes muscle memory and you can drop the routine. Always good to do now and then anyway as a sanity check.

My tuppence.
 
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Nealgl1985 said:
I'm curious what everyone feels is acceptable group size for shooting 50 yards offhand? I usually shoot off a bench so give me a break 😆.

I've just started practicing offhand at 50 yards and my 1st go was laughable. This was my 1st attempt with the uragan 2 compact 22. At least it leaves lots of room for improvement 🤣 i painted a black spot to aim at then decided i didnt need it for the other groups.View attachment 382838

Then I started aiming high on the target and dropping into the kill zone as I squeezed the trigger. This improved my group considerably but still not great. This group was from the taipan vet standard 25. Mag only had 5 rounds in it
View attachment 382839
This group was my attempt at redemption with the uragan 2 compact 22. Much better but still not real good
View attachment 382840

I'll be practicing more each day to see how much I can improve. My goal is to be able to consistently hold 3 inch 5-10 shot groups at 50 by the end of October. Not sure I'll reach that goal but I'll try.

Feel free to post your 50 yard offhand groups or just let me know what you consider acceptable by your own standards for 50 yards. I'm not talking cherry picked groups either. What's your average out of 10 groups of 5+ shots per group?

Also if you have anything that helped you with offhand shooting feel free to post up the info. Never know what I might be missing or doing wrong. I try my best at having good trigger control but I'm figuring out the rest as I go.
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I have a tip for you. NPA . Natural point of aim. Here is the drill, get in position and shoulder the rifle and aim. Dont shoot but close your eyes while holding your aim and then open your eyes and observe if you are now aiming at the target. Think of mounting your rifle onto a manikin and you have to move the manikin to bring the sights into your natural point of aim. Don’t just move the muzzle over or up or down. By getting that position where being on target is your natural position. You don’t have to force your hold on target and you can then think about keeping your eyes open throughout the whole shot. I am not so fond of shooting offhand with a scope, I shoot chipmunks who gobble up all the birdseed on my deck anywhere from 10 to 30 feet from my blind on the porch. I dispatched one this morning and when I fired the shot I watched my muzzle move. Being able to see your muzzle flip will tell you if your NPA is off or on. Up then down back to point of aim is the flip you want to see. If your NPA is off to the right your muzzle will flip left. Try shooting at a blank sheet of paper rather than a bullseye so you can practice the shot without worrying about where you are hitting. Just go for the same sight picture and pay attention to you and your NPA and resist blinking. You will find that you will group pretty well without an aim point.
 
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22junkie said:
I have a tip for you. NPA . Natural point of aim. Here is the drill, get in position and shoulder the rifle and aim. Dont shoot but close your eyes while holding your aim and then open your eyes and observe if you are now aiming at the target. Think of mounting your rifle onto a manikin and you have to move the manikin to bring the sights into your natural point of aim. Don’t just move the muzzle over or up or down. By getting that position where being on target is your natural position. You don’t have to force your hold on target and you can then think about keeping your eyes open throughout the whole shot. I am not so fond of shooting offhand with a scope, I shoot chipmunks who gobble up all the birdseed on my deck anywhere from 10 to 30 feet from my blind on the porch. I dispatched one this morning and when I fired the shot I watched my muzzle move. Being able to see your muzzle flip will tell you if your NPA is off or on. Up then down back to point of aim is the flip you want to see. If your NPA is off to the right your muzzle will flip left. Try shooting at a blank sheet of paper rather than a bullseye so you can practice the shot without worrying about where you are hitting. Just go for the same sight picture and pay attention to you and your NPA and resist blinking. You will find that you will group pretty well without an aim point.
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I believe that is precisely what I wrote two posts up :) but glad we agree!
 
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Yes on all of the above, additional key point, is work on finding and find your comfortable body method position of hold/supporting the rifle, this also takes time/training. Then combine this with methods described above.
Once all this is done, then it comes down to rotating with feet CW or CCW from top view, in order to find your natural point of aim.
 
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