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Detecting Scammers in the Classifieds

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rootdude

rootdude

Member
Apr 16, 2024
56
72
West Palm Beach, FL, USA
I'm reasonably sure this is going to make me a target for scams, since I spend a lot of time looking in the classifieds and reaching out to folks about what they are selling, but I'm guessing it'd be helpful to have a few of us here that can offer some assistance detecting scammers. Scammers don't appreciate being brought to light.

My background is in computer and network security. 40+ years in the business, and newly retired and picking up the obsession we seem to all share with air gunning.

That said, I joined a few weeks ago and promptly posted a WTB in the classifieds and within a few days, started receiving some interest and offers.

[email protected] emerged from the pack, offering just what I was looking for, and at a great price. The story he told about his airgun didn't sound kosher, so I asked a few questions about the provenance of the gun, what he liked and didn't about it, and for some pictures. The pictures are key.

Why?

Google (and other services) offer reverse image searches.

What are reverse image searches?

My personal AI descibes them thusly:

Reverse image search tools help people confirm the authenticity and source of images found online. This can be done by entering a portion of an image into a search engine, which then cross references the content with other databases or websites to see if any matches exist. If there is indeed a match, reverse image searches can help to locate the original location from where the photo was taken, which in turn helps people determine if it's been stolen or altered, and whether its origins are legitimate or not. People use reverse image search tools for a variety of reasons, including to verify someone’s identity, validate images used on websites, authenticate social media posts, track the usage of their own images by others, catch scammers using their photos without permission, confirm that an image is not being used maliciously or unfairly, and more.

So, with images in hand from this sketchy individual, I was able to reverse image search the pictures he sent, and they matched perfectly with images that had been used on YouTube and elsewhere promoting and reviewing the airgun I wanted.

Scammers have no money to buy the airgun they are offering, take pictures of it, and send them to various places asking people to buy them. They want your money and aren't willing to spend any to get that dough.

First instincts are important, as are reverse image searches; but the kicker is not to trust - you must verify as much information as possible. A legitimate seller (or buyer) will not have a problem sharing important identifying contact information with you to make sure the transaction proceeds smoothly.

I'm available to help you sort through and verify a potential scam if you like.My private messages are open.

Stay safe out there and protect yourselves.

There are wolves in our midst, and my big-bore is trained on sleuthing them out.

Best,
Mark
 
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rootdude said:
I'm reasonably sure this is going to make me a target for scams, since Is spend a lot of time looking in the classifieds and reaching out to folks about what they are selling, but I'm guessing it'd be helpful to have a few of us here that can offer some assistance detecting scammers. Scammers don't appreciate being brought to light.

My background is in computer and network security. 40+ years in the business, and newly retired and picking up the obsession we seem to all share with air gunning.

That said, I joined a few weeks ago and promptly posted a WTB in the classifieds and within a few days, started receiving some interest and offers.

[email protected] emerged from the pack, offering just what I was looking for, and at a great price. The story he told about his airgun didn't sound kosher, so I asked a few questions about the provenance of the gun, what he liked and didn't about it, and for some pictures. The pictures are key.

Why?

Google (and other services) offer reverse image searches.

What are reverse image searches?

My personal AI descibes them thusly:

Reverse image search tools help people confirm the authenticity and source of images found online. This can be done by entering a portion of an image into a search engine, which then cross references the content with other databases or websites to see if any matches exist. If there is indeed a match, reverse image searches can help to locate the original location from where the photo was taken, which in turn helps people determine if it's been stolen or altered, and whether its origins are legitimate or not. People use reverse image search tools for a variety of reasons, including to verify someone’s identity, validate images used on websites, authenticate social media posts, track the usage of their own images by others, catch scammers using their photos without permission, confirm that an image is not being used maliciously or unfairly, and more.

So, with images in hand from this sketchy individual, I was able to reverse image search the pictures he sent, and they matched perfectly with images that had been used on YouTube and elsewhere promoting and reviewing the airgun I wanted.

Scammers have no money to buy the airgun they are offering, take pictures of it, and send them to various places asking people to buy them. They want your money and aren't willing to spend any to get that dough.

First instincts are important, as are reverse image searches; but the kicker is not to trust - you must verify as much information as possible. A legitimate seller (or buyer) will not have a problem sharing important identifying contact information with you to make sure the transaction proceeds smoothly.

I'm available to help you sort through and verify a potential scam if you like.My private messages are open.

Stay safe out there and protect yourselves.

There are wolves in our midst, and my big-bore is trained on sleuthing them out.

Best,
Mark
Click to expand...
Thankyou very much , great info .
 
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Thank you Mark for your generous offer.

Can you offer any insights into websites?

For example
I got eBay selling a recoil free riser for $69
385624871725

Then I got this website offering ...it looks like the exact same product for 1/2 the price? (I assume .ru ...means a Russian site?)


Any tips on how I could check this out? other than asking if other members got scammed by this site.

I apologize if I over stepped and expanded the scope of your generous offer.
 
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JP806TX said:
Thank you Mark for your generous offer.

Can you offer any insights into websites?

For example
I got eBay selling a recoil free riser for $69
385624871725

Then I got this website offering ...it looks like the exact same product for 1/2 the price? (I assume .ru ...means a Russian site?)


Any tips on how I could check this out? other than asking if other members got scammed by this site.

I apologize if I over stepped and expanded the scope of your generous offer.
Click to expand...
.ru domain
"2024 online shop" just screams that it's just crap filled with any possible product, not specialized in any way to airguns or hobbies.
registration date 2/27/24. so less than 3 months old.

3 quick and obvious red flags.

the ebay one is a branded (hammers) item from what appears to be a highly rated seller named hammers optics, which I'd suggest is likely to be the ebay store of Hammers. some other people may resell hammers parts, but...generally anything with a ru or found on ali express type site is going to at best be a knockoff. buying overseas gives little protection sometimes, and sellers like to hide that you're never getting a refund no matter what - or that you have to pay overseas shipping to send it back, which ends up costing as much as the broken part you dont want anyway....

edit: red flag #4...the russian link is the EXACT title as the ebay listing. I'm not going to click in to see if it's the same picture, but 90% chance that russian site is 'scraping' ebay listings and replicating them, which is almost a sure sign you aint getting what you ordered, full stop.
 
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JP806TX said:
Thank you Mark for your generous offer.

Can you offer any insights into websites?

For example
I got eBay selling a recoil free riser for $69
385624871725

Then I got this website offering ...it looks like the exact same product for 1/2 the price? (I assume .ru ...means a Russian site?)


Any tips on how I could check this out? other than asking if other members got scammed by this site.

I apologize if I over stepped and expanded the scope of your generous offer.
Click to expand...

Happy to offer first glance impressions.

Firstly the .ru suffix to the site means nothing. Anyone, anywhere, can register a domain name with any suffix, except for some domain suffixes like .gov (those are restricted). So, basing any analysis on domain suffixes isn't very useful.

Secondly, you can verify the owner of the domain and their contact information easily. Use this link and put the domain name in there and search it. The contact information (including company name and phone numbers (and sometimes physical addresses) will be shown. A simple Google Maps search can help determine if the domain information matches the company. Some companies choose to obscure the contact information for privacy purposes. You likely don't want to do business with companies that obscure this information.

Thirdly, in my experience, websites with generic names like "Christmas Discount Shop" selling goods specific to our obsession should be avoided. If they aren't going to promote and brand themselves to appeal to our market, likely not going to be very helpful.

Finally, while saving money can be helpful, losing it cam be devastating. Better to pay more for assurance of the delivery of the product and a clear means to refund a purchase with a reputable seller than to lose it all and get nothing but disappointment in return.

Again, if you keep first principles in mind when doing business over the internet, it will serve you well.

My principles:

  1. Don't trust, verify.
  2. Don't trust, verify.
  3. Don't trust, verify.
Best,
Mark
 
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Jezter6 said:
.ru domain
"2024 online shop" just screams that it's just crap filled with any possible product, not specialized in any way to airguns or hobbies.
registration date 2/27/24. so less than 3 months old.

3 quick and obvious red flags.

the ebay one is a branded (hammers) item from what appears to be a highly rated seller named hammers optics, which I'd suggest is likely to be the ebay store of Hammers. some other people may resell hammers parts, but...generally anything with a ru or found on ali express type site is going to at best be a knockoff. buying overseas gives little protection sometimes, and sellers like to hide that you're never getting a refund no matter what - or that you have to pay overseas shipping to send it back, which ends up costing as much as the broken part you dont want anyway....
Click to expand...

@Jezter6 is thinking like a Don't trust, Verifier!

Kudos brother.
 
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Please report all any suspicious activity to the Admin/Staff by going to the individuals profile and using the REPORT button.

1715714870265.png


Thank you
 
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Airgun Nation said:
Please report all any suspicious activity to the Admin/Staff by going to the individuals profile and using the REPORT button.

View attachment 464439

Thank you
Click to expand...
This particular scammer got my email address from my profile. From what I gather, he’s not a member. I found the security setting to hide my email address from non-members and set it.

That should be the default security setting, by the way, obscuring members email addresses from non-members.
 
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Simplemann said:
Mark thank you for your expertise and sharing (y) I haven't ever sold or purchased here but if I ever do sell I would have no problem with FaceTiming someone. Isn't that a good way to weed out a scammer???
Click to expand...
In my opinion, seeing the person live with the items does provide some verification. Also, you get a feel for whether the person shares our interest in airgunning which I believe does sort out the outright thieves.

It’s definitely a data point, @Simplemann - and that data point value to you might mean a lot. To me it’d be a part of the mix.
 
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Just bought a gun on the Airgun Classifieds. Seller seemed legit and answered a difficult to know question correctly on the gun. However due to the amount of money involved, I paid an intro month subscription to PeopleLooker which was less than $10 but $24/month after that. I entered the seller's website into the database and got full name, address and other information like Facebook account which had a ton of information including where he worked, his picture ect. On the next email, I provided my address and asked for his full name and address. It all matched up. I then cancelled my PeopeLooker subscription which is pretty easy to do. I know this process I did is not full proof however I also used PayPal which is paid by my Discover Card. Discover has been the most aggressive card vendor on fraud and has always backed me in a dispute. Visa and Mastercard, not so much. I depend on them instead of Paypal. However, be careful of the information you post on line, this website found a ton of information on this guy.
 
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JDR said:
Just bought a gun on the Airgun Classifieds. Seller seemed legit and answered a difficult to know question correctly on the gun. However due to the amount of money involved, I paid an intro month subscription to PeopleLooker which was less than $10 but $24/month after that. I entered the seller's website into the database and got full name, address and other information like Facebook account which had a ton of information including where he worked, his picture ect. On the next email, I provided my address and asked for his full name and address. It all matched up. I then cancelled my PeopeLooker subscription which is pretty easy to do. I know this process I did is not full proof however I also used PayPal which is paid by my Discover Card. Discover has been the most aggressive card vendor on fraud and has always backed me in a dispute. Visa and Mastercard, not so much. I depend on them instead of Paypal. However, be careful of the information you post on line, this website found a ton of information on this guy.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing that verification method.

Another data point you can use for sure.

Did you ever think to ask the seller if it was ok for you to do this?

The PayPal protection is overrated - scammers use it to their advantage sometimes. Sellers lose most cases involving disputes with them - I have lost a fair amount to scammers claiming they didn’t receive goods as advertised. It should be part of your strategy, just not all encompassing.

Frankly, what PeopleLooker does strikes me as privacy invasive. Yes they buy data from Facebook and other sources, but Facebook has a horrible record of respecting users’ and non-users’ privacy which is why I dumped them more than a decade ago.

Kudos - some good points though.
 
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rootdude said:
Thanks for sharing that verification method.

Another data point you can use for sure.

Did you ever think to ask the seller if it was ok for you to do this?

The PayPal protection is overrated - scammers use it to their advantage sometimes. Sellers lose most cases involving disputes with them - I have lost a fair amount to scammers claiming they didn’t receive goods as advertised. It should be part of your strategy, just not all encompassing.

Frankly, what PeopleLooker does strikes me as privacy invasive. Yes they buy data from Facebook and other sources, but Facebook has a horrible record of respecting users’ and non-users’ privacy which is why I dumped them more than a decade ago.

Kudos - some good points though.
Click to expand...
I respectively disagree due to the risk ($350) I am taking and the Seller should know that (just like anybody asking someone to take great risk dealing with them). Involving the seller in all digging efforts I think reduces its effectiveness. All I get from the ad is a first name and email address. I feel I need to set information traps like loaded questions with many possible answers. Scammer may be very resourceful so may be one step ahead of me providing information especially if they can predict my actions. I see your moral issue on it but scamming especially on Airgun Classifieds is widespread. Seller should expect such scrutinty. Each person has to decide on the limits of their moral compass when deciding on legal actions they are deciding on taking. Also the seller does not know he was searched. I too dumped Facebook.
 
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JDR said:
I respectively disagree due to the risk ($350) I am taking and the Seller should know that (just like anybody asking someone to take great risk dealing with them). Involving the seller in all digging efforts I think reduces its effectiveness. All I get from the ad is a first name and email address. I feel I need to set information traps like loaded questions with many possible answers. Scammer may be very resourceful so may be one step ahead of me providing information especially if they can predict my actions. I see your moral issue on it but scamming especially on Airgun Classifieds is widespread. Seller should expect such scrutinty. Each person has to decide on the limits of their moral compass when deciding on legal actions they are deciding on taking. Also the seller does not know he was searched. I too dumped Facebook.
Click to expand...
You and I are both on the same page. I was just asking honestly if you considered the privacy ramifications, I wasn't passing judgment in the slightest.

Public information aggregators do supply a valuable resource - IF and only IF, IMHO, the information being collected is with the full consent of the person targeted by that information release.

At this point, if anyone uses any Meta/Facebook product and isn't aware of the monetization of their activity and data, that's on them.

👊
 
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