Thanks all for the info I finally got a hold of some barracuda match in 21.14 in 5.51 and WOW My bobcat loves these 10 yards hole in hole 35 yards ragged hole in hole 50 yards 1/2-3/4" (all on me) 100 yards I'll have 3 under and inch and then the good ole flyer 1.5" to 2" 5 shots ...